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Thread: Legalise all drugs

  1. #81
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dreadful Scathe
    . My point was there are lots of things you can breath in in a street that arent good for you and you dont expect apologies for them: car exhausts, smells/fumes from rubbish, dust from building sites, local industry fumes etc...


    No and you don't get it in Slough. Its about May time before you first see the Sun through the smog.

    The thing with smoking is its legal so those who smoke are generally treated 'humanely'. Drug takers are not

    Now there is no way i would want to see people openly using in the streets but if the 'stigma of addiction', could be looked at what a better place society would be.

    Some forum members maybe surprised to know its not that easy to give up smoking and any other drug.

  2. #82
    Registered User bobgadjet's Avatar
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    Originally posted by TheTramp
    (although, we could all go back to horse riding, but I'm allergic to them too ).
    Steve

    Hmm, there would be something said for the size of the pooper scoopers needed I bet !

  3. #83
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    Originally posted by stewart38
    Some forum members maybe surprised to know its not that easy to give up smoking and any other drug.
    Some years ago I worked with the Drug Squad as a painkiller I was marketing was being used in place of heroin - it's now used to help them with withdrawal.

    I learnt that there are 2 basic types of addiction. The first is habituation, this is easier to kick because there are no physical symptoms, it's just a habit - but it is still an act of will to give up your habit. Habits are hard to kick, think how often you reach for the gear know when you first go from a manual to an automatic car - and there is no pleasurable reward for changing gear. The second is physiological dependence where the addict depends on the drug to maintain their physical/physiological balance. Stopping taking the drug has a real and measurable physical affect. Smoking combines both habit and physiological dependence and it is a very hard thing to stop. I was told that in clinics people find quitting tobacco much harder than giving up crack cocaine. The life of many drug addicts revolves around their addiction. Think about how much time a smoker spends doing smoking related things, including earning the money to pay for them. Now multiply that time for Class A drugs like heroin and you'll see why they can not be legalised, they have to intrinsic an affect on our basic human needs and drives.

    There are, of course, some other recreational drugs that are not particularly addictive - but are they safe? It cost millions to test the safety of Viagra, which is sold on the black market for recreational use - who has done the same testing of Ecstasy? And would people stop selling and taking it if a recreational drug failed the safety testing?

  4. #84
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Andy McGregor
    . I was told that in clinics people find quitting tobacco much harder than giving up crack cocaine. The life of many drug addicts revolves around their addiction. Think about how much time a smoker spends doing smoking related things, including earning the money to pay for them. Now multiply that time for Class A drugs like heroin and you'll see why they can not be legalised, they have to intrinsic an affect on our basic human needs and drives.

    Seems to me that supports legalising class A drugs

    I can buy a smoker patch in Boots to help me but not for heroin

    One of the only reason I would see for not legalising all drugs is the addiction rates (I don't know enough about them)

  5. #85
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    Originally posted by stewart38
    Seems to me that supports legalising class A drugs

    I can buy a smoker patch in Boots to help me but not for heroin

    One of the only reason I would see for not legalising all drugs is the addiction rates (I don't know enough about them)
    Legalising a drug just to make treatment for addiction legal sounds hard to defend. I think legalising addictive drugs will increase the number of addicts. The addiction rate for heroin is that all regualar users will be addicted.

    The problem with many class A drugs is that they cause changes to the personality of the addict. Their whole life revolves around their next fix, they forget about work, family, love and anything else that makes them human.

    You can get help withdrawing from drugs just by going to your family doctor - although I'm not sure if he's allowed to treat addiction without registering the addict.

  6. #86
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    Originally posted by bobgadjet
    I should really ask if you have full considreration for others around you when you decide where and when to smoke.
    Bit unfare that bobgadjet. If you know FC and have evidence to prove her 'inconsideration' then that's a different story. I know, however that you don't.

    As a new member to the forum, I'd like to welcome you but in relation to your postings, may I suggest that it's not her that need's a little more 'consideration'......

    ....just an idea

    James

  7. #87
    Registered User bobgadjet's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jive Brummie
    Bit unfare that bobgadjet. If you know FC and have evidence to prove her 'inconsideration' then that's a different story. I know, however that you don't.

    As a new member to the forum, I'd like to welcome you but in relation to your postings, may I suggest that it's not her that need's a little more 'consideration'......

    ....just an idea

    James
    OUCH !

    OK, wrist slapped & thanks for the welcome.

  8. #88
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    Originally posted by bobgadjet
    OUCH !

    OK, wrist slapped & thanks for the welcome.

  9. #89
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    Originally posted by Jive Brummie
    Bit unfare that bobgadjet. If you know FC and have evidence to prove her 'inconsideration' then that's a different story.
    Fair comment, but I think bobgadget's remark was also fair. (Or at least I don't think it's appropriate to attack him in return.)

    FC, like most ceroc smokers, is considerate IMO when it comes to smoking. But I think frequent reminders from non-smokers are still ok. This is because it is easy for smokers to become over-confident about how considerate they are, and also because public tolerance for smoking is decreasing.

    But if you don't actually see someone smoking (much less have to inhale their smoke) then something like whether they 'smell of smoke' is simply personal preference, however strongly held. It's considered socially acceptable (rightly or wrongly) to make pretty cutting comments about smokers - perhaps with the intention of shocking them into giving up or whatever (you only need to look at some of the anti-smoking adverts).

    As I said, not all smokers 'smell like chimneys'. A single cigarette, smoked outside, followed by mints and a dash of cologne even, is hardly likely to leave a detectable smell to any but the most fastidious. Some smokers are far less careful - I have been a bit put off by an overpowering smell of smoke on someone's clothes and hair and breath, but I always have the option of not asking her for a second dance. And personally I don't feel strongly enough about it to make cutting anti-smoking remarks.

    Choosing to smoke (or being addicted) goes hand in hand perhaps with being the butt of such remarks I'm afraid. If it isn't said viciously it's maybe even better to just smile and accept it as a harmless exaggeration.

    Recently reformed smokers are amongst the worst offenders (someone's comments about a smoker once drove me to light up as a gesture of moral support), but they generally have social acceptance on their side.

    (Have just noticed bobgadget has graciously accepted a rebuke, but I think the principles of tolerance are still valid so I'll post this anyway, even if it does p*ss JB off)

  10. #90
    Papa Smurf
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    Originally posted by Jive Brummie at bobgadjet
    If you know FC and have evidence to prove her 'inconsideration' then ...
    proof, if any was ever needed , that no one reads my posts anymore !

  11. #91
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    Yet another awful picture. I can assure you that we were not under the influence of anything other than our own personalities when this was taken, but by god does it look suspicious.

    Thought it'd give you lot a laugh at the very least!

    Hills & Pamsonite x
    Attached Images Attached Images

  12. #92
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    Back to the original thread, an interesting case for legalising drugs such as heroin is made by the North Wales Police Chief Constable Richard Brunstrom today here.


    Of course, he probably isn't including whatever it is that Pammy's on

    And judging by last night's programme on drink-related crime in Cardiff, maybe he would like to see alternatives available.

  13. #93
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    Originally posted by Chris
    Of course, he probably isn't including whatever it is that Pammy's on
    You're so right, my personality would be banned, CLASS A at a guess

  14. #94
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    Whilst sitting in the Hollow Tree on Saturday, I did see ChrisA popping a pill Wondered if it was a steroid - keeping those muscles so pert in his black top must be hard work, but no... on closer inspection think it was merely a tic-tac

  15. #95
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    Wow, what a thread!!

    I've read some very intelligent argument and some over emotional tosh...

    Personally, I think anyone weak enough to be addicted to a substance that is damaging- be it class A, B, unclassified, whatever- should be shot to put themselves, their families and friends, and their society out of their misery and save the system countless amounts of money, time and dificulty.

  16. #96
    Registered User bobgadjet's Avatar
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    Re: Wow, what a thread!!

    Originally posted by Ceroc Jock
    weak enough to be addicted to a substance that is damaging- be it class A, B, unclassified, whatever-
    Surely that depends on the user
    There are a few who can easily take some of the banned substances in moderation, and can handle it, just like those who can take more drink than others, without it having an effect on what they do, or the way they do it.
    Can you honestly say that you have NEVER taken anything that might resemble somethning that others might have become addicted to? Like drink maybe? or tobacco maybe?
    If not, you must be an ever so pure person. Maybe that's why you take such a strong standpoint on what actions should eb taken

  17. #97
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    Dear Bobgadjet

    Hi,

    Please re read my post. If you must quote me, at least have the manners to reply relevantly.

    Thank you.

    CJ.

    FYI: I have had, and still do have, alcohol on occasion, but my post refers not to those who partake, but to those that become addicted.

  18. #98
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Legalise all drugs

    Originally posted by Will
    So would I. I was just pointing out how morally bankrupt it is to try to justify leagalising something on the grounds that it will reduce the crime rate. It was the logical conclusion of his arguement.
    It's morally bankrupt to make arguments on the basis that the crime rate would be reduced ? How do you work that out, Will?

    The existence of drugs must be morally neutral. For an individual, the only thing that prevents the taking of drugs from being a morally neutral act (without specific external circumstances) is the fact that it's illegal. Consequently, decriminalising or legalising drugs is, in itself, morally neutral unless you can point to immoral consequences.

    I've been arguing in favour of complete legalisation of recreational drugs for 25 years, and all most people can say are things like 'It'll send mixed messages' or 'Once it's legal, everybody will do it. Most people don't do drugs for fear of the consequences.'

    I'm sure that 'most people' didn't do alcohol in the US between the ratification of the Eighteenth Amendment to the US constitution and its repeal; but alcohol was no more of a threat to the fabric of US society in the 1940s than it was in the 1910s. As for sending mixed messages: ask yourself what sort of messages are sent by the fact that huge populations of the famous and the powerful (everyone from Ozzy Osbourne to George W Bush) have obviously spent years of their lives enjoying recreational drugs? Could it get any worse? Name a single person in these islands who couldn't locate a source of drugs within 48 hours (couldn't, not wouldn't).

    What seems to me to be morally bankrupt is the attitude that it's OK to waste billions of pounds following a policy the net effect of which seems to be condemning a certain sector of society to an enslavement to escaping. Marx might have been right that in his time, religion was the opium of the masses. In this century, opium is the opium of the masses.

  19. #99
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Legalise all drugs

    Originally posted by Barry Shnikov
    It's morally bankrupt to make arguments on the basis that the crime rate would be reduced ? How do you work that out, Will?

    OK Mr Shnikov. Lets say you lived in Smallville with a population of 1000. I come along and carpet bomb Smallville killing every living occupant. I am therefore guilty of murdering 1000 people UNLESS the government have previously passed a law legalising the killing of anyone with the surname of Shnikov.

    Assuming you have no family who also bare your name or a team of Russian ballet dancers staying at a hotel in Smallville, I am now merely guilty of the mass murder of 999 people - reducing the the crime rate by 1.

    My argument is that making it legal to murder you on the basis of "It reduces the crime rate is morally wrong." However, killing you on the grounds of taste due to the shirts that you sometimes turn up in has a far more moral basis. You look like a chemical weapon in some of those Hawaian numbers.

  20. #100
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    I'd further alledge that your wardrobe and your mission to legalise all drugs are not unrelated.

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