Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 46

Thread: Gender balancing ...

  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Which is a way to manage the imbalance. As are pole-dancing classes, ladies' technique, double trouble and so on.
    Double trouble classes are horrific as a man. They get at least as many men as ladies turning up, which means you spend at least half the time watching - not least because of the fixed trios and the ladies that want to learn to lead that too (which is perfectly reasonable).

    Sabotage classes are popular with the ladies - but not with the men, so you end up with another imbalance.

    Merely observing, not offering constructive suggestions on how to resolve it..

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Let the customers decide - Post on site number of vacancies remaining until next price increase and Gender Balance at present ?
    You could have a continuous variable price, like Easy Jet , the Male female price changes depending on the Male Female ratio
    Yes I know, that would fall foul of the sex discrimination laws

  3. #23
    Registered User spindr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Brizzle
    Posts
    1,617
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Add a "book with a male/female taxi-dancer" option -- automatic (expensive) gender balancing.

    No more "phantom men" (or ladies)
    SpinDr

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Let the customers decide - Post on site number of vacancies remaining until next price increase and Gender Balance at present ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    The problem with that is, 'someone' has to be first to book and obviously at the time of booking, there is no GB imbalance. ...
    People have faith in the events and the organisers. Most will come whatever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Say you get to 3 weeks before the event and look again and its 75% women.. What happens then?
    The "book on the chance it will be alright" crowd will know they were taking the chance, most of the later bookers will have accepted a large imbalance when they booked. The unhappy ones have three weeks to turn on the charm and get some men along, knowing it is necessary."

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    You could have a continuous variable price, like Easy Jet , the Male female price changes depending on the Male Female ratio ...
    By Jove, I think the chaps got it!" That was why put in the phrase "until the next price increase".

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Yes I know, that would fall foul of the sex discrimination laws
    I was thinking of a scheme on the lines of:
    Price for 1st 100 men to book £X, for the first 100 women £X, Next 100 men £x+y, Next 50 men £x+z, next 50 women £x+z etc Same price scale for men & women.

    Contenders for the last remaining places will be paying a premium price, and if there is an imblance at that point whichever sex is in the minority will be able to buy tickets at a much lower price.
    There will be a considerable difference in ticket prices with exactly the same rules for both sexes. If the event is severely under-booked then the organisers can have a last minute sale with prices reduced by the same percentage.

    No sexism in those rules.

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by LilyB View Post
    Ahhhh .... that explains why I never get a dance
    No, it's simply that you scare the bejesus out of the rest of us. It's like asking God to dance

  6. #26
    The Dashing Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    3,556
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    Let the customers decide - Post on site number of vacancies remaining until next price increase and Gender Balance at present ?
    I heard an interesting radio programme about exactly this sort of thing as I was driving home last night.

    They had the interesting theory that if people individually try to compete against each other and optimise their own interests individually, then the overall result won't be what's in the interest of the group as a whole.

    For example:
    [Ice] Hockey players, if they were given a choice, would always skate without helmets. But if they took a vote on the matter, in a secret ballot, they would vote, often unanimously, for a rule requiring themselves to wear helmets.
    What is in the individual interest, in competitive situations when rank [against your competitors] is really what matters, isn't necessarily what's in the group's interest.
    Oh and some stuff about Elks as well.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0174f06

    But it does make a good case on why there should be rules imposed, rather than allowing everyone to self-regulate or to compete against each other without rules.
    Love dance, will travel

  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post

    I was thinking of a scheme on the lines of:
    Price for 1st 100 men to book £X, for the first 100 women £X, Next 100 men £x+y, Next 50 men £x+z, next 50 women £x+z etc Same price scale for men & women.

    Contenders for the last remaining places will be paying a premium price, and if there is an imblance at that point whichever sex is in the minority will be able to buy tickets at a much lower price.
    There will be a considerable difference in ticket prices with exactly the same rules for both sexes. If the event is severely under-booked then the organisers can have a last minute sale with prices reduced by the same percentage.

    No sexism in those rules.
    Hardly fair to consider penalising people for the actions of those that bend the rules to their own advantage.
    The problem is the organisers to deal with.If there is no solution that is acceptable,we,the punters have to get on with it and make a decision whether to go or not.

  8. #28
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    I suspect that the women who are not particularly complaining are the ones who are booking in phantom men thereby exacerbating the situation.
    I also suspect that a lot of those that complain,as Philsmove pointed out,cant find anyone worth dancing with or those that they only want to dance with are snaffled up before they get to the edge of the floor
    Not necessarily. As I pointed out on the Bliss thread that spawned this one, at times I literally could not see any guys to ask, other than fairly exhausted looking men towelling themselves off, sitting at the back or taking a drink. If you've barricaded yourself behind 6 rows of tables and chairs, that's a pretty clear indication that you are not available for the next track! I'm not fussy, I will go and ask anyone to dance unless from past experience I know I hate dancing with them (because they smell, perv or have hurt me in the past).

    I think that the ones who don't complain are simply happy to pick on hot/exhausted men coming off the dancefloor - the ones that I'm too polite, on the whole, to grab (at least unless I know them well, and even then I usually give them the option by asking if they're OK to dance or if they're too hot/tired). Or they have actually come with a man and just spend most of their time dancing with him, or at least know that if they really need to dance to a track, he's there for them.

  9. #29
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I was thinking of a scheme on the lines of:
    Price for 1st 100 men to book £X, for the first 100 women £X, Next 100 men £x+y, Next 50 men £x+z, next 50 women £x+z etc Same price scale for men & women.

    Contenders for the last remaining places will be paying a premium price, and if there is an imblance at that point whichever sex is in the minority will be able to buy tickets at a much lower price.
    There will be a considerable difference in ticket prices with exactly the same rules for both sexes. If the event is severely under-booked then the organisers can have a last minute sale with prices reduced by the same percentage.

    No sexism in those rules.
    I have to say that I think that could work, as it might encourage men to book earlier as they'd get the weekender at a better price. Women have a tendency to book very early, as if you need an all female chalet (be it for 1 or 6), you have to book within the first week or two of it being available, or you just don't get to go at all. So the organisers could see how the gender balance was shaping up quite early on. That would also allow for targeted promotion to the lower gender.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Hardly fair to consider penalising people for the actions of those that bend the rules to their own advantage.
    The problem is the organisers to deal with.If there is no solution that is acceptable,we,the punters have to get on with it and make a decision whether to go or not.
    Where is the penalisation? If you book early, you get a bargain. Who doesn't love a bargain? Anyway, the best way to get people to change behaviour is to make it to the person's advantage.

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Don't Ceroc already have an early bird Price

    I dont think Ceroc would be too keen on letting how many people have booked. so I think that rules out the "first 100 idea"

    but an on line auction should not fall foul of the sex discrimination rule

  11. #31
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    I've just had a look at the pricing differentials booking a chalet for two women as opposed to two women and one man. For Storm, for a Classic 1 bed or Classic Plus 2 bed, the cost difference between booking a chalet for 2 women as opposed to 2 women and 1 man is only about £40-£50 per person, so not that big an outlay to play the system and get on a weekender.

    I am not sure there is any way to get around this one however, without penalising one gender.

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post

    Where is the penalisation? If you book early, you get a bargain. Who doesn't love a bargain? Anyway, the best way to get people to change behaviour is to make it to the person's advantage.
    I am not really looking for the bargain,heavens above you could hardly say the price of these weekenders is expensive.My point is that I dont expect to have to pay more than my next door neighbour for the same facility.

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    2,119
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    I am not really looking for the bargain,heavens above you could hardly say the price of these weekenders is expensive.My point is that I dont expect to have to pay more than my next door neighbour for the same facility.
    You already do - if you book much later than the early birds... even for the basic chalets!

    WT

  14. #34
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Weirdly, I've had to try and find a couple of women for my workshop on Sunday. Which is a novel experience for me... Normally, I have to scramble to find guys, I usually have to co-opt a couple of female leads. But now, I have a male waiting list. Heh.

    One other thing I've noticed, for freestyles and events, is that guys, by and large, get really grumpy if there's even the possibility of not enough women; they'll give up far more easily than women will. I suspect that as a group, we're far too used to having it our own way in the dance scene, and as a general factor, the atmosphere at dance events would be far healthier if there were more even numbers.

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    bedford
    Posts
    4,899
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Weirdly, I've had to try and find a couple of women for my workshop on Sunday. Which is a novel experience for me... Normally, I have to scramble to find guys, I usually have to co-opt a couple of female leads. But now, I have a male waiting list. Heh....
    One conclusion i drew from my stats was that an excess of males COULD be a sympthom of a scene in decline.


    ...One other thing I've noticed, for freestyles and events, is that guys, by and large, get really grumpy if there's even the possibility of not enough women; they'll give up far more easily than women will. I suspect that as a group, we're far too used to having it our own way in the dance scene, and as a general factor, the atmosphere at dance events would be far healthier if there were more even numbers.
    I don't want to get in the way of true love so I hang back at request time. I do one circuit of the sitting out ladies, and subsequent circuits of those I clicked with. If there is a great excess of men my work is done. I hang around a bit hoping to be asked, and then usually go home early. It is not "giving up", it is recognising that the evening does not need me.

  16. #36
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I don't want to get in the way of true love so I hang back at request time. I do one circuit of the sitting out ladies, and subsequent circuits of those I clicked with. If there is a great excess of men my work is done. I hang around a bit hoping to be asked, and then usually go home early. It is not "giving up", it is recognising that the evening does not need me.
    Aww

    I kind of see where you're coming from and the sad truth is, there's a lot of 'un-needed' women at un Gender Balanced weekenders

    When there's a lot of women over at a weekender... the nice, polite ladies with a sense of self respect and pride, are up against the pure evil, hardcore superfast, 'stalk n grabber' set

    In the extreme, one has choices... become one of the 'evil stalk and grabber set', be polite, patient and gracious and have hardly any dances or leave with your held high and still feel thoroughly miserable.

    The trouble is, unlike a weekly class or freestyle, you're often miles away from home, the excitement has built over the weeks, you've taken time off and spent some hard earned cash. So its not such an easy choice
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  17. #37
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    One conclusion i drew from my stats was that an excess of males COULD be a sympthom of a scene in decline.
    Typically, in the end, the workshop had 1 woman over. One woman extra turned up and 1 man didn't.

    Now, I strongly suspect that me simply saying I had spare follower spaces made leaders less sure about attending for fear of not being in the minority. Which makes me wonder if the "male bookings" are generally less, well, solid than the female ones?

  18. #38
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    In the extreme, one has choices... become one of the 'evil stalk and grabber set', be polite, patient and gracious and have hardly any dances or leave with your held high and still feel thoroughly miserable.

    The trouble is, unlike a weekly class or freestyle, you're often miles away from home, the excitement has built over the weeks, you've taken time off and spent some hard earned cash. So its not such an easy choice
    Yes, the emotions always run higher at weekenders, everyone feels a little out of their comfort zone, so each rejection / non-dance can be a crushing disappointment - whereas at a normal freestyle, you'd just shrug it off.

    Hell, I've had it myself, and I'm not exactly a shrinking violet.

  19. #39
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    1,156
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    I don't want to get in the way of true love so I hang back at request time.
    The result of hanging back (for whatever reason), or being in a low percentile as regards skill,looks etc. is that a small change in the gender ratio makes leader dances fall off a cliff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    In the extreme, one has choices... become one of the 'evil stalk and grabber set', be polite, patient and gracious and have hardly any dances or leave with your held high and still feel thoroughly miserable.
    True for a seriously unbalanced weekender, but that label doesn't apply to Southport or Camber, so it is a bit of a straw man.

    In the case of Ceroc weekenders the small change in the ratio that can happen, may be enough to make leader dances fall off cliff.

    I don't believe the slope is nearly so steep for followers.

    So it is better to err towards excess followers.

  20. #40
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Gender balancing ...

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    True for a seriously unbalanced weekender, but that label doesn't apply to Southport or Camber, so it is a bit of a straw man.

    In the case of Ceroc weekenders the small change in the ratio that can happen, may be enough to make leader dances fall off cliff.

    I don't believe the slope is nearly so steep for followers.

    So it is better to err towards excess followers.
    Excuse me, but were you at the last Camber? Are you female? It wasn't a small change at all, at least for the first two freestyle sessions I was at downstairs. Now it might have been the case that the men were all upstairs (although from reports I heard, the gender balance was off kilter up there too - I think that for the later freestyle sessions, I simply timed things better.) But when there is literally not a single man to ask, other than the sweaty tired ones sitting at the back trying to avoid being asked, there is something wrong. And when Ceroc actually start to admit to there being a problem in their brochure, then I think that saying that the gender balance is so small that it is inconsequential is simply wrong. You try being one of the polite women who doesn't stalk in these situations and you can see what it feels like. It's very frustrating and disheartening

    I think that we've got used to there being a small excess of followers as it is. From observing behaviour on the dancefloor and around it, there are a number of men who will dance to track after track without a break, whereas women, on the whole, will sit out quite a few so as not to get too hot and sweaty and also to catch up with friends or just watch. This natural tendency sorts out the usual slight imbalance. I've been to a couple of freestyles where there have an excess of men, and as a follower, although I had a good night overall, I couldn't sit down for the first half hour and ended up turning dances down and leaving the room to recover.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. No gender balancing to stress about
    By stewart38 in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 8th-May-2010, 08:17 AM
  2. Gender Balancing - How Fair Is It?
    By Maxine in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 23rd-October-2009, 08:44 AM
  3. Gender Balancing Rant!!!
    By Andy McGregor in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 124
    Last Post: 13th-October-2007, 06:17 PM
  4. Gender balancing at weekenders
    By Minnie M in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 4th-October-2007, 01:12 PM
  5. Automatic Gender Balancing
    By Jeremy in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 10th-January-2006, 05:25 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •