Double trouble classes are horrific as a man. They get at least as many men as ladies turning up, which means you spend at least half the time watching - not least because of the fixed trios and the ladies that want to learn to lead that too (which is perfectly reasonable).
Sabotage classes are popular with the ladies - but not with the men, so you end up with another imbalance.
Merely observing, not offering constructive suggestions on how to resolve it..
Add a "book with a male/female taxi-dancer" option -- automatic (expensive) gender balancing.
No more "phantom men" (or ladies)
SpinDr
People have faith in the events and the organisers. Most will come whatever.
The "book on the chance it will be alright" crowd will know they were taking the chance, most of the later bookers will have accepted a large imbalance when they booked. The unhappy ones have three weeks to turn on the charm and get some men along, knowing it is necessary."
By Jove, I think the chaps got it!" That was why put in the phrase "until the next price increase".
I was thinking of a scheme on the lines of:
Price for 1st 100 men to book £X, for the first 100 women £X, Next 100 men £x+y, Next 50 men £x+z, next 50 women £x+z etc Same price scale for men & women.
Contenders for the last remaining places will be paying a premium price, and if there is an imblance at that point whichever sex is in the minority will be able to buy tickets at a much lower price.
There will be a considerable difference in ticket prices with exactly the same rules for both sexes. If the event is severely under-booked then the organisers can have a last minute sale with prices reduced by the same percentage.
No sexism in those rules.
I heard an interesting radio programme about exactly this sort of thing as I was driving home last night.
They had the interesting theory that if people individually try to compete against each other and optimise their own interests individually, then the overall result won't be what's in the interest of the group as a whole.
For example:
[Ice] Hockey players, if they were given a choice, would always skate without helmets. But if they took a vote on the matter, in a secret ballot, they would vote, often unanimously, for a rule requiring themselves to wear helmets.Oh and some stuff about Elks as well.What is in the individual interest, in competitive situations when rank [against your competitors] is really what matters, isn't necessarily what's in the group's interest.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0174f06
But it does make a good case on why there should be rules imposed, rather than allowing everyone to self-regulate or to compete against each other without rules.
Love dance, will travel
Hardly fair to consider penalising people for the actions of those that bend the rules to their own advantage.
The problem is the organisers to deal with.If there is no solution that is acceptable,we,the punters have to get on with it and make a decision whether to go or not.
Not necessarily. As I pointed out on the Bliss thread that spawned this one, at times I literally could not see any guys to ask, other than fairly exhausted looking men towelling themselves off, sitting at the back or taking a drink. If you've barricaded yourself behind 6 rows of tables and chairs, that's a pretty clear indication that you are not available for the next track! I'm not fussy, I will go and ask anyone to dance unless from past experience I know I hate dancing with them (because they smell, perv or have hurt me in the past).
I think that the ones who don't complain are simply happy to pick on hot/exhausted men coming off the dancefloor - the ones that I'm too polite, on the whole, to grab (at least unless I know them well, and even then I usually give them the option by asking if they're OK to dance or if they're too hot/tired). Or they have actually come with a man and just spend most of their time dancing with him, or at least know that if they really need to dance to a track, he's there for them.
I have to say that I think that could work, as it might encourage men to book earlier as they'd get the weekender at a better price. Women have a tendency to book very early, as if you need an all female chalet (be it for 1 or 6), you have to book within the first week or two of it being available, or you just don't get to go at all. So the organisers could see how the gender balance was shaping up quite early on. That would also allow for targeted promotion to the lower gender.
Where is the penalisation? If you book early, you get a bargain. Who doesn't love a bargain? Anyway, the best way to get people to change behaviour is to make it to the person's advantage.
Don't Ceroc already have an early bird Price
I dont think Ceroc would be too keen on letting how many people have booked. so I think that rules out the "first 100 idea"
but an on line auction should not fall foul of the sex discrimination rule
I've just had a look at the pricing differentials booking a chalet for two women as opposed to two women and one man. For Storm, for a Classic 1 bed or Classic Plus 2 bed, the cost difference between booking a chalet for 2 women as opposed to 2 women and 1 man is only about £40-£50 per person, so not that big an outlay to play the system and get on a weekender.
I am not sure there is any way to get around this one however, without penalising one gender.
Weirdly, I've had to try and find a couple of women for my workshop on Sunday. Which is a novel experience for me... Normally, I have to scramble to find guys, I usually have to co-opt a couple of female leads. But now, I have a male waiting list. Heh.
One other thing I've noticed, for freestyles and events, is that guys, by and large, get really grumpy if there's even the possibility of not enough women; they'll give up far more easily than women will. I suspect that as a group, we're far too used to having it our own way in the dance scene, and as a general factor, the atmosphere at dance events would be far healthier if there were more even numbers.
One conclusion i drew from my stats was that an excess of males COULD be a sympthom of a scene in decline.
I don't want to get in the way of true love so I hang back at request time. I do one circuit of the sitting out ladies, and subsequent circuits of those I clicked with. If there is a great excess of men my work is done. I hang around a bit hoping to be asked, and then usually go home early. It is not "giving up", it is recognising that the evening does not need me....One other thing I've noticed, for freestyles and events, is that guys, by and large, get really grumpy if there's even the possibility of not enough women; they'll give up far more easily than women will. I suspect that as a group, we're far too used to having it our own way in the dance scene, and as a general factor, the atmosphere at dance events would be far healthier if there were more even numbers.
Aww
I kind of see where you're coming from and the sad truth is, there's a lot of 'un-needed' women at un Gender Balanced weekenders
When there's a lot of women over at a weekender... the nice, polite ladies with a sense of self respect and pride, are up against the pure evil, hardcore superfast, 'stalk n grabber' set
In the extreme, one has choices... become one of the 'evil stalk and grabber set', be polite, patient and gracious and have hardly any dances or leave with your held high and still feel thoroughly miserable.
The trouble is, unlike a weekly class or freestyle, you're often miles away from home, the excitement has built over the weeks, you've taken time off and spent some hard earned cash. So its not such an easy choice
MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
"If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine
Typically, in the end, the workshop had 1 woman over. One woman extra turned up and 1 man didn't.
Now, I strongly suspect that me simply saying I had spare follower spaces made leaders less sure about attending for fear of not being in the minority. Which makes me wonder if the "male bookings" are generally less, well, solid than the female ones?
Yes, the emotions always run higher at weekenders, everyone feels a little out of their comfort zone, so each rejection / non-dance can be a crushing disappointment - whereas at a normal freestyle, you'd just shrug it off.
Hell, I've had it myself, and I'm not exactly a shrinking violet.
The result of hanging back (for whatever reason), or being in a low percentile as regards skill,looks etc. is that a small change in the gender ratio makes leader dances fall off a cliff.
True for a seriously unbalanced weekender, but that label doesn't apply to Southport or Camber, so it is a bit of a straw man.
In the case of Ceroc weekenders the small change in the ratio that can happen, may be enough to make leader dances fall off cliff.
I don't believe the slope is nearly so steep for followers.
So it is better to err towards excess followers.
Excuse me, but were you at the last Camber? Are you female? It wasn't a small change at all, at least for the first two freestyle sessions I was at downstairs. Now it might have been the case that the men were all upstairs (although from reports I heard, the gender balance was off kilter up there too - I think that for the later freestyle sessions, I simply timed things better.) But when there is literally not a single man to ask, other than the sweaty tired ones sitting at the back trying to avoid being asked, there is something wrong. And when Ceroc actually start to admit to there being a problem in their brochure, then I think that saying that the gender balance is so small that it is inconsequential is simply wrong. You try being one of the polite women who doesn't stalk in these situations and you can see what it feels like. It's very frustrating and disheartening
I think that we've got used to there being a small excess of followers as it is. From observing behaviour on the dancefloor and around it, there are a number of men who will dance to track after track without a break, whereas women, on the whole, will sit out quite a few so as not to get too hot and sweaty and also to catch up with friends or just watch. This natural tendency sorts out the usual slight imbalance. I've been to a couple of freestyles where there have an excess of men, and as a follower, although I had a good night overall, I couldn't sit down for the first half hour and ended up turning dances down and leaving the room to recover.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Bookmarks