Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 26

Thread: The Riots

  1. #1
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    The Riots

    I know I'm not alone when I say that I'm totally shocked, worried and very upset about what's going on.

    I live in North London but thankfully, as of this moment, all seems to be quiet in my immediate vicinity but I know lots of people who's businesses have been affected.

    I'm glued to the TV coverage and seeing these politicians pussy footing around is driving me nuts, its political correctness gone mad! These hooligans are rampaging and getting away with it, walking around as if its their right!

    They're not warring against the police or the government, its just gratuitous thuggery! They're affecting 'individuals' homes, businesses and property. And apparently its coming to light that some may not even insured, due to act of riot being exempt.

    My daughter's old flat in Croydon has been raised to the ground and the business yard my son works out of, is within 50mtrs of the centre of trouble in Tottenham.
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  2. #2
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: The Riots

    Couldn't agree more Lory. There was a small amount of rioting local to me as well, and more serious rioting up the road in Peckham (where we were supposed to be going last night till I heard the helicopters overhead!).

    What to do to fix the situation though? There won't be any single easy solution. What we see as law-abiding citizens is one thing - lawlessness, violence, greed. Someone posted on my local forum that the "rioters" see it as a "party". So presumably just a bit of fun. How can you get those who see it like that to understand that what they are doing is wrong - or if they realise that it's wrong to care about it?

    On my local forum again, someone suggested that it is currently, in legal terms, civil disturbance rather than riot, which may be one of the reasons the army has not been brought in as yet, as that would be the Crown acting and therefore formally a riot and might affect people's ability to make insurance claims. Not sure how much truth there is in this, but it's an interesting idea.

  3. #3
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Belfast
    Posts
    8,925
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: The Riots

    I've not seen any of the news coverage yet but it looks like larger scale than we are used to here. If its anything like what happens here the rioters are young people who are bored, want to throw things, hit people and set fire to things. Its not serious protest about something they actually care about.

    Hope everyone stays safe and is able to avoid/get out of dangerous areas (from personal experience when you see a row of police landrovers blocking the road ahead, or a burning car at the side of the road, its time to find an alternative route!)

  4. #4
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: The Riots

    My son is 20 and thankfully, he's a perfectly lovely human being but I am still completely insisting that he stays at home tonight!

    1. I don't want him to inadvertently get caught up in any trouble, just because he happens to have picked the 'wrong area' to go out in.
    2. I'm scared he'll get mugged
    3. I want ALL YOUTHS OFF THE STREETS, so that the police can get on with their job and not have to deal with spectators or be confused by innocent bystanders, caught up in the foray!

    It angers me that people have no flippin' sense!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  5. #5
    Registered User NickC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    187
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: The Riots

    I just wish the police would shoot the b**terds

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: The Riots

    "I was told there were fires in the Church Street area, near Surrey Street Market.
    "By the time I drove towards it, I could already see the fires from my windscreen,"
    "There were six or seven people screaming and crying outside, and they looked like they lived at the flats that were burning. The flats were above small independent shops. A man in a white shirt was screaming that a girl was at the window and that she was ready to jump. He ran towards her but riot police had appeared and pulled him back, and they went to her instead.

    "As soon as she dropped, the crowds pushed back and there was no way to see what happened to her."

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/...50_964x639.jpg

    Yeah, that got through to me like none of the rest of the coverage managed. Just drove home through Salford. Greater Manchester Police, "Rumours of a stand-off are false, a group of 20 youths were dispersed." No, they were all still together, in their hoodies, as I drove through them. Worse, my house-mate is 22, female and at work with a 2 mile walk through Manchester and Salford to get home from the station, so I'm going to have to go out again. Oh well..

  7. #7
    Omnipresent Administrator Franck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Glasgow
    Posts
    3,045
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10
    Scary stuff. Glad to hear you're all ok.
    Hopefully will be tailing off now. Keep us all informed of development.

    I was reading about the #riotcleanup on twitter, good to see so many people volunteering to clean up and show solidarity.
    Franck.

    There's an A.P.P. for that!

  8. #8
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northeastern Parts
    Posts
    5,221
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: The Riots

    This makes for interesting reading, if you want a policeman's viewpoint on what's going on.

    Inspector Gadget's Blog

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London, United Kin
    Posts
    3,896
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: The Riots

    All the areas around where I work have been attacked but luckily not where I actually work.

    I find it very sad the way people just jump on the bandwagon and commit these mindless acts of violence. I here social commentators discussing poverty. I don’t buy it when the people committing these acts are dressed in designer clothes and trainers and communicating by blackberry messenger – that does not seem like poverty to me. Other things blamed have been the closing of libraries, well they was not breaking into book stores and stealing books.

    The most alarming part of the setting on fire of shops is the fact that most shops in urban areas have people living above them in flats and that their lives were in danger.

    More robust policing needed and quicker response.

    One of the saddest things to me, was whilst discussing some of the problems faced by the police was the young age of the rioters, I believe one was as young as 8. When I mentioned that why is an 8 year allowed to roam around the streets, one of my colleagues said that you can’t keep an 8 year old in. Err yes you can, I certainly never let my children roam around the street at 8, not in London. If you can’t have any influence on your children at 8 what hope have you got when they become teenagers

  10. #10
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    I find it very sad the way people just jump on the bandwagon and commit these mindless acts of violence. I here social commentators discussing poverty.

    The reasons are many layered and nuanced, I am sure poverty is barely registering though. There are troublemakers and then there are the bored youth that do not want for much except more consumer stuff that the media suggests we should all aspire to, and they are quite happy to feel part of "the mob". The scale opf this is down to technology - I remember reading a short story, I think by Piers Anthony, that discussed instant teleportation and how when the news reported that there was looting in a shopping centre hundreds of people teleported in to make it worse - ok we dont have teleportation but we do have twitter, facebook and instant messaging from handheld devices ensuring that everyone can find out "where its at". As we have seen yesterday though, it goes both ways and the sensible people can organise themselves that way too.

    Other things blamed have been the closing of libraries, well they was not breaking into book stores and stealing books.
    No, they wasn't We should have created a dummy chain of shops called "Instant Gratification Shops" tagline "we have shiny technology" and make them big cages, they'd go there first. The only thing "poor" so far are they excuses for this sort of behaviour.

    The most alarming part of the setting on fire of shops is the fact that most shops in urban areas have people living above them in flats and that their lives were in danger.
    The mind boggles at how you can be "sticking it to the man" by setting fire to someones probably-barely-scraping-by business and some nurses 1 bed flat .

    More robust policing needed and quicker response.

    The police should be using technology better thats for sure. Members of the public should be given a site where they report in disturbances by area on a map, the fact that they have to register full name and address and credit card (to really ensure they are who they say there are) would almost completely prevent false reports (which you consistently get via twitter for example). Then the police could release some of this info to the public if they thought it was appropriate, and otherwise keep it private to prevent rioters from adding to the numbers in new hotspots.

    When I mentioned that why is an 8 year allowed to roam around the streets, one of my colleagues said that you can’t keep an 8 year old in.
    I'll happily say , that on this occasion at least, your colleague is a complete idiot. We'll leave the question on whether 8 years olds should be out wandering the streets at all as irrelevent for now, but what parent is going to let even their teenagers out in the streets when there are ACTUAL RIOTS, MUGGINGS and ARSON happening? No decent parent, thats for sure.

    If this goes on much longer, you can expect vigilante gangs, made up of those who have lost everything already, the concerned and the caring and they'll be carrying rope and looking for sturdy lamposts. They'll not shed a tear as "hoody petrol bomb thrower #44" is strung up, and they'll let their children watch even thought they would not let them watch such horrors on TV, because they'll feel it is justified. Theres always a "too far" in any society, lets hope we don't reach it.

  11. #11
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northeastern Parts
    Posts
    5,221
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I remember reading a short story, I think by Piers Anthony, that discussed instant teleportation and how when the news reported that there was looting in a shopping centre hundreds of people teleported in to make it worse
    It was by Larry Niven - Flash Crowd, and The Last Days of the Permanent Floating Riot Club. Good stories, and frighteningly relevant to what's been happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The mind boggles at how you can be "sticking it to the man" by setting fire to someones probably-barely-scraping-by business and some nurses 1 bed flat
    Blind ignorance. One of the ones that got me was those two girls being interviewed while drinking stolen wine and bragging about their actions:

    Girl 1: It’s the government’s fault.
    Girl 2: Yeah - I dunno.
    Girl 1: Conserva'ives!
    Girl 2: Yeah, wha'ever, who it is, I dunno.
    Girl 1: It’s not even a riot, it’s about showing the police we can do what we want.
    They're blaming the government for their own looting and wrecking spree, and they don't even know who that government is. I have no words.

    Listen here

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sunny South Hampshire
    Posts
    873
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: The Riots

    Without diminishing the scale of what's happening to the victims of this in any way and before the Daily Mail readers leap down my throat, unfortunately in this country (and I guess many others) when riots or disorder do occur, they are usually overshadowed by those who aim is no more than violence and thievery. I have no love for those thugs than anyone else and hope the police deal with them quickly and sharply. The scale may have been different, but exactly the same thing happened in the Poll Tax riots, Miners dispute, Bradford racism riots etc.

    The bad thing is, the original core reasons for the disorder can get lost beneath the very photogenic arson and violence. Of course, it suits the Government to pretend violence and thievery is what it's all about (and the media more or less goes along for the ride, lovely interview with the girls, picture of a charity shop being looted, thugs wearing blackberries, are these typical or just isolated incidents selected for their viewing impact?). But that's not the whole truth, underneath the criminal element that have attached themselves to this, there are real issues of pain, suffering and poverty.
    If the root cause was the "need to steal electronics", or the "need to burn down houses" then this would happen everyday since electronics to steal and houses to burn are always available. No, there is a root cause that isn't anything to do with the mindless violence, arson or thieving. There is a trigger.

    If a solution is to be found and future troubles averted, then the difference between the mindless thugs who should be dealt with with the full force of the law, and those driven by desperation to riot needs to be recognised.

    So, regarding the root cause, many of the things this Government has done have impacted in an extremely negative way on many disadvantaged sectors of our society. Savage cuts in housing benefit, cuts to students, massive cuts in disability benefits, forced servitude etc. My only real surprize is that people are surprized the riots have happened. The suffering inflicted here far dwarfs anything caused by the Poll Tax for example. I simply have never lived under a government as malevolent as this one.

    The post above says there's always a "Too far", your right... and judging by the riots, I guess some have already reached that point.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Belfast, NI
    Posts
    1,220
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by TA Guy View Post
    So, regarding the root cause, many of the things this Government has done have impacted in an extremely negative way on many disadvantaged sectors of our society. Savage cuts in housing benefit, cuts to students, massive cuts in disability benefits, forced servitude etc. My only real surprize is that people are surprized the riots have happened. The suffering inflicted here far dwarfs anything caused by the Poll Tax for example. I simply have never lived under a government as malevolent as this one.
    But they're not attacking the government (even the ones who know who that government is!). They're attacking randomly selected members of the public, businesses they think they can break into, loot and burn without too much difficulty, and people's homes. If there was ever any justification for more than peaceful protest, it has long since been lost. Maybe if we'd come down harder on them the first night it wouldn't have spread so quickly and widely. I don't care what socioeconomic background the rioters are from, I have no sympathy for their situation whatsoever. If they have the time, energy and inclination to go out rioting they're obviously not working that hard, either to find a job or to keep one. If their problem is with the government, let them take it up with the government, and not just take out their frustration in violent attacks on otherwise uninvolved people.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: The Riots

    I dont believe for one minute that the riots were borne out of pain suffering poverty or desperation.
    It was more than likely carefully orchestrated and the word spread that there was goods to be had and the lowlife that couldnt give a damn about law and order took full advantage.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The police should be using technology better thats for sure. Members of the public should be given a site where they report in disturbances by area on a map, the fact that they have to register full name and address and credit card (to really ensure they are who they say there are) would almost completely prevent false reports (which you consistently get via twitter for example). Then the police could release some of this info to the public if they thought it was appropriate, and otherwise keep it private to prevent rioters from adding to the numbers in new hotspots.
    The police have a difficult job, but they're making it harder for themselves in many ways - even just yesterday.

    Example one :
    Tuesday : Police announce via national media that 100 crowd control trained officers had been sent from Manchester to London.
    Wednesday : Police in Manchester admit that they lost control.
    I don't know, maybe it was just a little too bloody obvious and predictable.

    Example two :
    5pm, Salford: Police spokesman states that minor scuffles, and a group of youths dispersed. No cause for concern.
    That was _after_ shops had been looted, a car had been overturned and set on fire, and the 'dispersed' youths had merely headed into the centre of Manchester.

    Based on police reports a female colleague stayed late in the office. She eventually left, and found herself surrounded by looters, getting blocked off her journey home by riot police, witnessing looting and shops getting burned and having to eventually return to the office and ring for help.

    Fortunately for her the Manchester looters weren't mugging individuals, unlike the ones in London on Monday.

    Example Three :
    Police complain that 'vigilantes' are distracting them, preventing them from stopping looters, causing a public disturbance, tell them that they're facing arrest for possession of dangerous weapons.

    This one really riles me. There are shops in London that would have been burned and/or looted if the rioting looters hadn't been deterred by the collection of shop owners stood outside to protect them. Frankly, vigilantes are stopping looting occurring where they are. The police are merely chasing looters from one looting spot to another.

    I don't support the EDL, I don't think anybody is justified in chasing down a young black man that happens to be wearing a hooded jacket (and yeah, that happened last night too) and I really don't think it's appropriate for people to combine property protection with alcohol (and yeah, that happened too). I do think it's appropriate that people take to the streets, stand their ground, physically prevent property violence and effectively deter criminality, and I really wish the police would acknowledge that - and ideally, publish guidelines to help.

    A police statement along the lines of, "Stay within 50 yards of your property, nominate a leader that can coordinate with the police, drink nothing stronger than coffee, keep weapons out of sight, do not chase people, video everything, be prepared to respond to any accusations of assault by only acting in defense of yourself or your property, and you'll be staying within the law" would help.

    Example Four :
    Live BBC feed from Manchester last night. Policeman with riot gear approaches a man and a woman that are sauntering through Manchester, speaks to them. It's too far to see a response, but they don't run, they don't attack him, they don't gesticulate.. they do get struck on the legs by the baton.

    I'm sorry, but that's assault. If that happens to me I end up in jail, because I will defend myself and the police will throw the book at me - my only hope would be that someone other than the police catch it on video, because I don't care how stressed they are, how tired, how difficult the job, the police can not and must not assault members of the public.

    The whole thing was triggered by the police killing someone and the initial flashpoint was very much influenced by the continued ability of the police to kill and assault people without censure or repercussions. The looting is clearly opportunistic greed and unjustifiable, but there are clear grievances that are going to need to be addressed.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,041
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: The Riots

    Like everyone else, I'm in despair about these riots.

    I don't think they are any sort of political protest and am concerned that in the backlash against what we have seen this week, the right to peaceful, legitimate protest is firmly upheld. Other than that, I think i would support greater police powers to control the situation.

    I've no idea why these people feel they have the right to behave like this - they haven't. Being held to account and being penalised for their behaviour is paramount - most of these kids will already have broken the law numerous times and got away with it so they are ingrained with the idea that they are invincible. I think 95% of the perpetrators will get off scot-free so the PM's speech about bringing them to justice rang pretty hollow.

    I was amazed to see armoured cars clearing a street of hooligans- why did they not block off the other end of the street and herd them together and arrest the lot of them? Even if they could not ultimately charge them it would make them think twice about it next time and they will have suffered some sort of consequence for their actions, which has been completely missing up till now.

    I hear on the news tonight that it's turning into a race war as the Sikhs get all fiery about protecting their stuff. My heart sinks - I thought it was just about greedy and selfish white kids showing up the decadent culture that spawned them.

    The only good bit so far - the father of one of the Asian kids killed in Birmingham telling everyone to calm down and go home as we all have to live together in peace. That took a bit of strength of character.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London, United Kin
    Posts
    3,896
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post



    The mind boggles at how you can be "sticking it to the man" by setting fire to someones probably-barely-scraping-by business and some nurses 1 bed flat .







    I can always count on you DS to give me a condescending reply. Where did I say that people losing their businesses did not matter?? Incidentally people form all walks of life live in these flats and many of the families, so why mention a nurse baffles me. I was just thinking along the lines of Maslow’s hierarchy of need being that shelter is a basic human need.

  18. #18
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northeastern Parts
    Posts
    5,221
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    I can always count on you DS to give me a condescending reply. Where did I say that people losing their businesses did not matter?? Incidentally people form all walks of life live in these flats and many of the families, so why mention a nurse baffles me. I was just thinking along the lines of Maslow’s hierarchy of need being that shelter is a basic human need.
    The way I read DS' statement was that he agreed with you (and was just adding a little extra slant to what you said)

  19. #19
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    The way I read DS' statement was that he agreed with you (and was just adding a little extra slant to what you said)
    yes indeed I'm surprised it could be read otherwise. But I like Maxine so I'll not bear a grudge

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Sunny South Hampshire
    Posts
    873
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: The Riots

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    But they're not attacking the government (even the ones who know who that government is!). They're attacking randomly selected members of the public, businesses they think they can break into, loot and burn without too much difficulty, and people's homes. If there was ever any justification for more than peaceful protest, it has long since been lost. Maybe if we'd come down harder on them the first night it wouldn't have spread so quickly and widely. I don't care what socioeconomic background the rioters are from, I have no sympathy for their situation whatsoever. If they have the time, energy and inclination to go out rioting they're obviously not working that hard, either to find a job or to keep one. If their problem is with the government, let them take it up with the government, and not just take out their frustration in violent attacks on otherwise uninvolved people.
    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    I dont believe for one minute that the riots were borne out of pain suffering poverty or desperation.
    It was more than likely carefully orchestrated and the word spread that there was goods to be had and the lowlife that couldnt give a damn about law and order took full advantage.
    I am not arguing against either of those viewpoints. Indeed, they could have come straight from the pages of the Daily Mail. And it's not wrong.

    The problem is that life isn't that simplistic.
    You really think what's behind this is one reason? Just one? Everybody has the same motivation ?
    I have no problem with calls for the criminal element, the violent, the arsonists to be locked up and dealt with the full force of the law.
    Last edited by TA Guy; 11th-August-2011 at 01:36 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •