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Thread: The Seedy Side

  1. #21
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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Really? Most of the events he runs are either normal freestyles, chill out events or multi room events which are hardly new or 'interesting'. Richard and Jo who run Ceroc Fever looked at running an event at The Spinnaker Tower months before it appeared on KB's radar, which I think is probably the event you're referring to, (they actually live opposite it!) and decided it wasn't a good enough venue: it costs a fortune to park, the main room floor is very poor and the two upstairs room are tiny and only accessible by a lift, so there is no natural flow to the rooms - none of this seemed to bother him!
    I fail to see your point. Richard and Jo of Ceroc Fever LOOKED at running an event and decided that it was a poor venue and decided not to use a particular venue. Somone else used that venue to run an event. They may or may not have lost money. If they lost money then they are putting themselves out of business. If they made money then they saw something in the venue that Ceroc Fever didn't although if it was as unfavoforable as you claim they will have trouble doing it again.

    Or is the point that someone that dances in various organsations event uses these events to promote his events? You do not actually say that.

    As for "interesting" new events. With so many creative minds around the country trying to come up with interesting events it must be getting harder to do something that someone, somewhere has not done. I would settle for a decent floor and some interesting music right now where I am. They do not seem to have even heard of modern jive (or even Ceroc) here in Switzerland.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    His event in Winchester which has since been cancelled (L'Attitude) had the blues room in the entrance foyer! Interesting maybe, but hardly conducive to creating an intimate environment...
    So, the guy cannot plan out a decent event. It doesn't sound like any organisers will need to worry about him for long then. So was it really worth the effort of getting together (something of a cosmic event in itself) when he is so poor an event organiser? This thread simultaneoulsy makes him sound like an irritiating flea and a hopeless oevent orgniser while at the same time the sledgehammer of this multi organisation national ban is reached for to crush him.

    I don't know the guy or his events and heck, I am not even in the same country anymore but if anyone had a decent blues room that actually played real bllues music I wouldn't have cared one bit if it was in the kitchen. I had been getting fed up of going to things billed as "blues" rooms only to have two hours of dreary latin style music played to me.

    As for Mr Bennet. either say why you have been banned and let us make our own minds up or just stop whining for sympathy for some injustice you won't tell us about. Did I mention that "vaguebooking" was something I hate?

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    I fail to see your point... etc. etc. etc...
    Obviously...

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Obviously...
    I think Chef is being kind. He doesn't really 'fail to see' Rocky's 'point'. Rocky's point is irrelevant. But Chef was to nice to say so. You do not ban someone because they put on an event in a venue you 'looked at'.

    What we'd like to hear from Rocky are the real reasons for the banning. Rocky may be able to hazard a guess. But as he's part of Ceroc he might actually know the real reasons. If he knows the real reasons for the banning then these guesses are a smoke screen. If he doesn't know the real reason then this particular guess is weak.

  5. #24
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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What we'd like to hear from Rocky are the real reasons for the banning. Rocky may be able to hazard a guess.
    I'm sure I read Rocky post somewhere that he'd had a playlist nicked by the accused? It must've been on one of the other threads....

    Can somebody please post the real reasons. I'm running out of , and I'm finding it hard to contain my

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think Chef is being kind. He doesn't really 'fail to see' Rocky's 'point'. Rocky's point is irrelevant. But Chef was to nice to say so. You do not ban someone because they put on an event in a venue you 'looked at'.
    I do try to be kind. I even try to be kind to Mr Bennet even though his vaugebooking really annoys me and I want him to say why he has been banned, say why he thinks he has been banned or to stop angling for sympthy until he is prepared to do so.

    I also think Rockys point to be irrelvant. You do not ban some one because thye put on event at a venue "looked at" (or at least I cannot see it as a reason - perhaps that is the obvious point that I have missed).


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    What we'd like to hear from Rocky are the real reasons for the banning. Rocky may be able to hazard a guess. But as he's part of Ceroc he might actually know the real reasons. If he knows the real reasons for the banning then these guesses are a smoke screen. If he doesn't know the real reason then this particular guess is weak.
    On past form I would guess that Rocky either doesn't know the real reason, doesn't feel it is his place to divulge it or doesn't want to divulge it. Just because Rocky is a well known Ceroc figure doesn't mean he will either know or will be prepared to come straight out and tell us the real reason, possibly for legal reasons. It may be these legal reasons why Mike Ellard was less than forthcocming during a BBC interview (Claims from Mr Bennets facebook thread) although the only reason for turning up for a BBC interview when you are not prepared to tell the story is because you can use the opportunity for some publicity. The Ceroc membership conditions contain no compulsion to provide a reason, to anyone, why membership has been withdrawn.

    Rocky anecdotes add up to annoyances perpetrated by someone so apparently inept that the best way to crush him is to let him do it to himself.

    Unfortunately I missed the opportunity to quote Lous' preceeding post but, I can see how someone nicking Rockys playlists would be something that would annoy the hell out of him as I know that he, and every other MJ DJ I know, put a great deal of effort into finding their own particular playlists and feel very protective of them. If you are a punter rather than a competing organiser or DJ very often DJs that I know will often tell you (or even have pre printed slips to write on) the name and artist of one or two tracks that you particularly like if you ask them. To ask for, or shazaam a whole playlist when you a DJ or organiser is sufficient grounds for banning in my view asa you are taking whole sale a DJs stock in trade.

    So Lou, I really think that people have good reasons for not stating the real reasons for the ban (apart from the fact that there is no compulsion for them to do so) so I think you will run out of popcorn.

    The bottom line is that Mr Bennet is either a serious threat in the area and it is sensible to deny him access to punters he can tell about his events, and DJs that he can nick playlists from, or he is an inept opportunist who can put himself into debt quickest on his own. Reading the facebook thread and his website material he has definately crossed the line between being just a punter to being a competitor.

    I did not feel that Rockys post made the extent to which he had crossed that line clear and that you really needed lots of other info from various sources to understand the scale that would justify a ban. It would have been easier if Rocky had been more comprehensive in what he had said but he is a busy man and is under no compulsion to say anything at all.

  7. #26
    Not a spoon! Lou's Avatar
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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    So Lou, I really think that people have good reasons for not stating the real reasons for the ban (apart from the fact that there is no compulsion for them to do so) so I think you will run out of popcorn.
    It's a shame, Chef.

    I have no idea who any of these people are (except Mike Ellard, who I've obviously heard of), as I don't dance in the area.

    It seems unwise that a group of competing MJ organisers went to the trouble of sending out that one BIG STATEMENT letter to the accused. Judging from what these people knew of his character, this action was bound to provoke outrage from Mr Bennett, and indeed it did. I think it would have been far wiser to have banned him on an individual basis, and it would have remained just another local dance drama. Now, thanks to this action, it's out in the wider jive community - and most of us are now interested in both sides of the story.

    There have been many accusations made against this chap - but there are very few facts. Rocky's was the only post that actually contained any. I'd like to know more, as I agree with you - it's a weaselly thing to nick a playlist and pass it on as your own. It's certainly unethical, however it's not exactly the "catalog of crime" that fandangle referred to earlier.

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    I am sure that the reasons for the ban will never be shared on a public forum but if I can just hijack the thread for one moment with regard to 'shazzaming' playlists.
    At a recent weekender it was obvious that there was quite a lot of this going on,to the point that one person informed me,incidently while he was downloading a 'shazzamed' track,that he had downloaded at least 40 tracks during that weekend.
    I think its something that djs are going to have to live with.

  9. #28
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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think Chef is being kind. He doesn't really 'fail to see' Rocky's 'point'. Rocky's point is irrelevant. But Chef was to nice to say so. You do not ban someone because they put on an event in a venue you 'looked at'...
    Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
    ...You do not ban some one because thye put on event at a venue "looked at" (or at least I cannot see it as a reason - perhaps that is the obvious point that I have missed)..
    Ah, the joys of a circular debate... Umm.. just to point out that my post had nothing to do with why KB was banned but was simply a discussion on Frodo's post about KB creating 'interesting' events.. that's all.

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    my post had nothing to do with why KB was banned
    I'm glad you agree with Chef and me about something.

    Now, to get back to the matter of the banning. Rocky has posted that KB has been a very naughty boy at his venues because he Shazammed his playlist. If it was me I'd have been flattered that I was being copied. And I've had one local teacher attend my classes and take notes - he was guy 1 in row 1 and kept getting a piece of paper out of his pocket and writing things down - however, I would have been annoyed if he'd billed his Thursday night lesson as 'the same lesson as Andy McGregor taught on Tuesday'.

    I still can't see how KB copying Rocky's playlist would get him banned from every Ceroc event in the UK. Come on Rocky, do you know why KB was banned? You don't have to tell us the reasons, just tell us if you know the reasons.

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Rocky has posted that KB has been a very naughty boy at his venues because he Shazammed his playlist. If it was me I'd have been flattered that I was being copied.
    Of course you would - I've see some of your playlists...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I still can't see how KB copying Rocky's playlist would get him banned from every Ceroc event in the UK. Come on Rocky, do you know why KB was banned? You don't have to tell us the reasons, just tell us if you know the reasons.
    What I don't understand is why anyone thinks they are owed any explanation when it has nothing to do with them?! The ban doesn't stop him running events at all and the reasons for it are a private matter between the signatories and KB. Surely that's not a difficult concept to grasp is it?

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Rocky has posted that KB has been a very naughty boy at his venues because he Shazammed his playlist.

    ~snip~

    I still can't see how KB copying Rocky's playlist would get him banned from every Ceroc event in the UK.
    Well, its a certain way to stop him ever doing it again.
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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    His event in Winchester which has since been cancelled (L'Attitude) had the blues room in the entrance foyer! Interesting maybe, but hardly conducive to creating an intimate environment...
    Sounds like he got the idea for that from Breeze 2006. Definite grounds for a ban I'd say.

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    Answer the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Of course you would - I've see some of your playlists...
    My guess is that you'd think the music I play is mostly ancient - because I look at all music on it's merits, no matter how old. The last (& only) time I attended Utopia the musical choice completely ignored anything more than a few years old. On the plus side, Rocky has nothing to fear - I won't be Shazamming Rocky's sets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    What I don't understand is why anyone thinks they are owed any explanation when it has nothing to do with them?! The ban doesn't stop him running events at all and the reasons for it are a private matter between the signatories and KB. Surely that's not a difficult concept to grasp is it?
    Rocky hasn't answered the question I posed. I asked if he knows the reasons for the banning. I didn't ask him to tell us what those reasons are. Rocky is right, they could be private. However, Rocky is coming up with guesses about why KB was banned - if Rocky knows the real reasons for the banning we can speculate about Rocky's motivation for putting up his 'guesses' - smoke screen, red herrings, etc.

    So, Rocky, do you know why KB was banned? In the style of Paxman, can you answer the question? A simple yes or no will suffice. Even saying you are not prepared to answer the question is better than answering a question that was not asked.

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    My guess is that you'd think the music I play is mostly ancient...
    Well, it would be silly not to match your music to your customer base.. throws another fishing line out..

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    However, Rocky is coming up with guesses about why KB was banned - if Rocky knows the real reasons for the banning we can speculate about Rocky's motivation for putting up his 'guesses' - smoke screen, red herrings, etc.
    Nope, where in this thread am I making guesses about why he was banned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    So, Rocky, do you know why KB was banned? In the style of Paxman, can you answer the question? A simple yes or no will suffice. Even saying you are not prepared to answer the question is better than answering a question that was not asked.
    Why does it matter?

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    Re: The Seedy Side

    Why are people so desperate to know? Just after some gossip I suppose.

    With regards to shazzaming, I think it can be avoided but speeding up / slowing down the music by 1-2% unnoticeable to most people but enough to change the way shazzam hears the song.

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    Does Rocky know nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well, it would be silly not to match your music to your customer base.. throws another fishing line out..
    My customer base is all ages and the music I play is all ages. Is Rocky trying to imply there's something wrong with the demographic of my customers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Nope, where in this thread am I making guesses about why he was banned?
    The whole thread is about KB being banned. Rocky has listed some of the things about KB that he has witnessed first hand. Rocky has not said if those things resulted in the banning of KB - but he has not denied it when he was asked. Does Rocky know why KB was banned? A simple 'no' would be all that's required to answer the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Why does it matter?
    It doesn't matter to most of us as it doesn't impact on our lives. In fact, it matters less to me than it does to Rocky. To my knowledge I've not even had KB attend any of my events.

    However, it's news on the jive scene and we all like news. For example, there's poisoning in a hospital in Stockport. There is very little chance I will ever go to this Hospital and I haven't been to Stockport since the early 80s. But I still read the news about this situation when it appears in the newspaper.

    In fact, the news about KB is much more relevant to some of us as we do know some of the people involved.

    So Rocky, do you know? Are you just not telling us what you know? Or do you know as much as the rest of us?

  18. #37
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Does Rocky know nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    So Rocky, do you know? Are you just not telling us what you know? Or do you know as much as the rest of us?
    Who knows...

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    Re: Does Rocky know nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Who knows...
    Ask Val. She will probably tell you what you're thinking. And she probably knows what you know - and a whole lot more.

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    Re: Does Rocky know nothing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Ask Val. She will probably tell you what you're thinking. And she probably knows what you know - and a whole lot more.
    Steady on fellow ... that could be read as being offensive ..... I'm sure Rocky has a mind of his own.

    Anyway .. back to the thread ... If all the aforementioned august organisations chose to ban him ... do we care?

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    Re: Does Rocky know nothing?

    I think as this letter has now been brought into the public domain its human nature to want to know the full story.

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