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Thread: The right to die

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    The right to die

    Tough this one after seeing this


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...hett-film.html

    I'm against it but then I'm not in pain or terminally ill.

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    Re: The right to die

    You've been watching Emmerdale haven't you?

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    Re: The right to die

    I'm very much for it. I'm also for the idea of offering counselling before you make that decision, but in the end it is your own life. Only you can judge whether it's worth continuing or not. I just worry about teenagers (and others not able to think rationally) making snap decisions....

    I didn't see the documentary so I can't comment on whether it was glorified or not.

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    Re: The right to die

    Terry Pratchett was on the box about it this morning - always good to see Our Tel.

    Errr. That's my contribution.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post

    I didn't see the documentary so I can't comment on whether it was glorified or not.
    I watched the documentary last night and found Sir Terry and his PA an interesting pair to watch, one who clearly supported assisited dying but not in its present form and the other not supporting it at all.

    There was an MS sufferer who was 42 and clearly had doubts about dying at this particular time. he had travelled to Zurich and found it a beautiful place which he had wished he had had more time to explore. He felt he had to die at that particular time as he would soon be too unwell to travel. He died the next day.

    Then there was Mr Smedley (from the can manufacturing family). He clearly did not want to be a burden to his wife and decided it was his time. We were allowed to see his two assessments with the Doctor prior to him travelling to the house to take the drink and die. I don't believe this was glorified at all, in fact it was a bit harrowing, but i thought it was well documented so that we could get an insight into the final moments of what had been a journey for this husband and wife.

    The documentary didn't change my mind. I'm in favour of assisted dying.

    I find it difficult to believe that Dignitas, a not-for-profit organisation has to charge £10,000 per client, and I do think that as the service is not provided in this country people are ending their lives earlier than need be.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Pants View Post
    Then there was Mr Smedley (from the can manufacturing family). He clearly did not want to be a burden to his wife and decided it was his time.
    It's situations like this that bother me. I wonder if he would have been in such a rush to kill himself if he knew his wife would get the support she needed to look after him at home as his condition worsened.

    I am more in favour of better assistance to live than better assistance to die.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Pants View Post
    I find it difficult to believe that Dignitas, a not-for-profit organisation has to charge £10,000 per client, and I do think that as the service is not provided in this country people are ending their lives earlier than need be.
    I didn't know it costed so much. A quick bit of research finds this page, which breaks down the costs as follows:

    Dignitas joining fee: £133 (200 Swiss francs / CHF)
    Annual membership: £53 (80 CHF)
    Preparation for an accompanied suicide £1,994 (3000 CHF)
    Doctor’s fees £665 (1000 CHF)
    Costs for completing an accompanied suicide £1,994 (3000 CHF)
    Funeral services & cremation £1,329 (2000 CHF)
    Completing official procedures (optional) £997 (1500 CHF)

    To be honest I'm not sure why people go to Switzerland to die when there are quick and painless ways of dying without assistance, especially asphyxiation by inert gases (nitrogen preferably, or helium). I know some people genuinely do need assistance but many are able to go to a hardware store and buy the required things.

    I hope I haven't upset anyone by saying that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I am more in favour of better assistance to live than better assistance to die.
    I agree that better assistance to live would enable some people to continue living in some cases, but sometimes the pain is just too much.
    Last edited by meghann; 14th-June-2011 at 02:42 PM. Reason: typos

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    Re: The right to die

    [QUOTE=Double Trouble;589439] I wonder if he would have been in such a rush to kill himself if he knew his wife would get the support she needed to look after him at home as his condition worsened.

    QUOTE]

    In this particular case, money clearly was not an issue and he could have afforded a whole ward to care for him and suport his wife, and given the size of the house the west wing could clearly have been given up to care for him and there would still be room to hold a state dinner in the rest of the house.

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    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Pants View Post
    I watched the documentary last night and found Sir Terry and his PA an interesting pair to watch, one who clearly supported assisited dying but not in its present form and the other not supporting it at all.

    There was an MS sufferer who was 42 and clearly had doubts about dying at this particular time. he had travelled to Zurich and found it a beautiful place which he had wished he had had more time to explore. He felt he had to die at that particular time as he would soon be too unwell to travel. He died the next day.

    Then there was Mr Smedley (from the can manufacturing family). He clearly did not want to be a burden to his wife and decided it was his time. We were allowed to see his two assessments with the Doctor prior to him travelling to the house to take the drink and die. I don't believe this was glorified at all, in fact it was a bit harrowing, but i thought it was well documented so that we could get an insight into the final moments of what had been a journey for this husband and wife.

    The documentary didn't change my mind. I'm in favour of assisted dying.

    I find it difficult to believe that Dignitas, a not-for-profit organisation has to charge £10,000 per client, and I do think that as the service is not provided in this country people are ending their lives earlier than need be.
    The problem is these people were clearly 'with it' and wanted to die long before their symptoms became to debilitating

    The wife of one wanted to buggar off before he died ??

    Tough call


    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    To be honest I'm not sure why people go to Switzerland to die when there are quick and painless ways of dying without assistance, especially asphyxiation by inert gases (nitrogen preferably, or helium). I know some people genuinely do need assistance but many are able to go to a hardware store and buy the required things.

    I hope I haven't upset anyone by saying that.
    Why not just jump off a 30 storey building ?

    I'm not sure wether your trying to be funny ??

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    I didn't know it costed so much. A quick bit of research finds this page, which breaks down the costs as follows:

    Annual membership: £53 (80 CHF)
    Well they're not going to make much out of that one are they?

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Well they're not going to make much out of that one are they?
    Cruel and brilliant.

    I salute you sir.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Well they're not going to make much out of that one are they?
    Actually, it was surprising how many people joined and then decided they were not ready to die yet, but had been satisfied that the service was available and that they could use it in the future ..... happily paying their annual membership.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    To be honest I'm not sure why people go to Switzerland to die when there are quick and painless ways of dying without assistance, especially asphyxiation by inert gases (nitrogen preferably, or helium). I know some people genuinely do need assistance but many are able to go to a hardware store and buy the required things.
    The MS sufferer had tried to kill himself twice, including taking three months worth of morphine ... that should have killed him but it merely put him to sleep for 5 days.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Cruel and brilliant.

    I salute you sir.
    Well, if you can't laugh at death and absurdity.
    That reminds me, I wonder if the Darwin awards have had any more entrants recently...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiger Pants View Post
    The MS sufferer had tried to kill himself twice, including taking three months worth of morphine ... that should have killed him but it merely put him to sleep for 5 days.
    That's exactly the sort of thing that makes me understand why they want to do it.
    After all, like it or not, a spotty teenager with their whole life in front of them can throw themselves off a bridge because their girlfriend dumped them or because they failed their exams, but someone with very poor quality of life and nothing but pain and mental anguish in front of them isn't allowed to do that simply by virtue of the fact that they physically can't do it on their own.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Why not just jump off a 30 storey building ?

    I'm not sure wether your trying to be funny ??
    I was trying to be serious, but I wasn't sure if I'd succeeded or even if it was appropriate to write something like that, hence the pre-emptive apology. I'm happy to have it removed if people think it was inappropriate, but I was aiming for a useful contribution to talking about the right to die.

    Jumping off a building isn't entirely reliable, causing a lot of pain if it fails; and it's not very peaceful (which is important to some people).

    I have done a fair amount of reading on this subject. Asphysxiation with a so-called exit bag is "recommended" (not the right word) as a painless, reliable and peaceful way to die, and it's cheaper than Dignitas. Which is why I mentioned it.

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    Re: The right to die

    In 1990 my sister's boyfriend asked her round to the block of flats he lived in for a coffee. While she was in the lounge drinking it he went to the roof and jumped off. In the few days prior to this he'd taken her around trying to find other suitable ways/places of doing it. He was 19 and just fed up with the world.

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    Re: The right to die

    As far as Terry Pratchett is concerned his particular condition means he's got a dilemma. His condition needs to be bad enough to justify ending his life. When his condition is bad enough it will also mean he's no longer in a position to have the judgement to make a decision to end his own life. This means that the decision to end his life would need to be made by a 3rd party. That, of course, is murder.

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    That, of course, is murder.
    Then there's the religious matter to consider. Does your God or your faith allow you to end your own life?

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    but many are able to go to a hardware store and buy the required things.
    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Why not just jump off a 30 storey building ?
    Some time ago, I had the very unpleasant task, of recovering the body of someone who had jumped off the Clifton suspension bridge

    Please, if you are going to end it all, do think of the people who sold you the stuff in the hardware store or if you do jump off a 30 storey building, the guys who have to clean up afterwards

    If you do take a trip to Switzerland, at least you friends know whats going on and you have a chance to say goodbye

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    Re: The right to die

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    As far as Terry Pratchett is concerned his particular condition means he's got a dilemma. His condition needs to be bad enough to justify ending his life. When his condition is bad enough it will also mean he's no longer in a position to have the judgement to make a decision to end his own life. This means that the decision to end his life would need to be made by a 3rd party. That, of course, is murder.
    It is murder. Perhaps there could be some kind of provision for this in living wills (I know at the moment they only enable you to deny treatment, rather than make active decisions about when to die). Perhaps you could have a directive that once your quality of life or cognitive abilities fall below a given threshold, which can be measured using some kind of test, then you want to be euthanised.

    Of course, the big problem with this is that there's no way of knowing whether you would still want to be euthanised at the time.

    I seem to remember watching another programme with TP since his diagnosis in which he investigated the probably path of his disease. I have a fairly strong memory of him realising that he would reach a point where he wouldn't be able to care about it any more.

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