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Thread: Blues - A step too far

  1. #141
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Light and shade? Can you explain what that actually means?

    That's a genuine request for help to understand btw, not a dig or sarcasm.
    Well at Pontins you don't get light unless you pay for it and the shade is the broken bit of plastic hanging off the light that you frisbee across the lawn..

    It's as Lory says - variation. When we teach a L&S class we concentrate on a variety of lead from plain old standing still to then incorprating half, time single time and double time movement. This allows you to vary your dancing to the feel of a track and to add more dynamism when a track builds - and then to couterpoint that with gentler movement when the music calls for it.

    Or, as Lory says, you could just expose your ring at the right time..

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well at Pontins you don't get light unless you pay for it and the shade is the broken bit of plastic hanging off the light that you frisbee across the lawn.
    I say, I say, I say...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    It's as Lory says - variation. When we teach a L&S class we concentrate on a variety of lead from plain old standing still to then incorprating half, time single time and double time movement. This allows you to vary your dancing to the feel of a track and to add more dynamism when a track builds - and then to couterpoint that with gentler movement when the music calls for it.
    ahhhhh, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Or, as Lory says, you could just expose your ring at the right time..
    Nah, the judge said I can't do that any more.

  3. #143
    Registered User FoxyFunkster's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Light and shade? Can you explain what that actually means?

    That's a genuine request for help to understand btw, not a dig or sarcasm.
    Night and shade in simple terms means adding contrast in your dancing, In very basic terms i would suggest trying to dance half time, straight time and double time.

    Take the blues basic and rather than weight change on every beat, i would mix it up with different rhythms as suggested. add step taps, kick ball changes, triple steps or rotate during the basic will be adding colour and contrast to the movement.

    An example would be dancing to a phrase of music. I see people who dance straight through a Major Phrase change and miss what the music is doing, however usually during the last set of 8 in a phrase of 32 you will mostly feel an acceleration in the music or it building up to the phrase change....So i would try and reflect this, so when swing dancing to a a 32 beat phrase i would mostly thinking to dance like this as a guide

    1st set 8 - dance straight timing but attach to something lyrical in the song
    2nd set 8 - straight timing, swing movements/shapes
    3rd set 8 - Usually a change in the music so here i would look to slow things down
    4th set 8 - The song is now building up to resolve or accelerating so i would add acceleration and speed to my movements looking to show or highlight the phrase change.

    So with this method i will have covered the basic 3 of straight timing, half timing and double time in 1 phrase.

    Hope this helps a little

  4. #144
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Nah, the judge said I can't do that any more.
    Really??! I thought she insisted you get it out at every given opportunity! Apparently she's very proud of your ring...

  5. #145
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Night and shade...
    I thought I told you that wearing sunglasses in the Blues room was neither cool nor clever...

  6. #146
    Registered User FoxyFunkster's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Light and shade? Can you explain what that actually means?

    That's a genuine request for help to understand btw, not a dig or sarcasm.
    Boring i know but a perfect example here by Jordan and Tatiana



    Watch from 1.20 to 1.30ish

    The last 2 sets of 8 the music is building up, so the energy in their dancing rises with the music then he does multiple spins which look really uncomfortable for her (but they actually aren't) then slowing down to highlight the Phrase change to chorus

    Again keep watching and you see more speed up to 1.40 for the end of the chorus.....
    Last edited by FoxyFunkster; 16th-June-2011 at 05:29 PM.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Night and shade in simple terms means adding contrast in your dancing, In very basic terms i would suggest trying to dance half time, straight time and double time.

    Take the blues basic and rather than weight change on every beat, i would mix it up with different rhythms as suggested. add step taps, kick ball changes, triple steps or rotate during the basic will be adding colour and contrast to the movement.

    An example would be dancing to a phrase of music. I see people who dance straight through a Major Phrase change and miss what the music is doing, however usually during the last set of 8 in a phrase of 32 you will mostly feel an acceleration in the music or it building up to the phrase change....So i would try and reflect this, so when swing dancing to a a 32 beat phrase i would mostly thinking to dance like this as a guide

    1st set 8 - dance straight timing but attach to something lyrical in the song
    2nd set 8 - straight timing, swing movements/shapes
    3rd set 8 - Usually a change in the music so here i would look to slow things down
    4th set 8 - The song is now building up to resolve or accelerating so i would add acceleration and speed to my movements looking to show or highlight the phrase change.

    So with this method i will have covered the basic 3 of straight timing, half timing and double time in 1 phrase.

    Hope this helps a little
    The first half of your first sentence helped, but even that wasn't anything more than has already been said by others; You did make a big effort to answer a question I didn't ask though , so thanks anyway.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    An example would be dancing to a phrase of music. I see people who dance straight through a Major Phrase change and miss what the music is doing, however usually during the last set of 8 in a phrase of 32 you will mostly feel an acceleration in the music or it building up to the phrase change....
    I often find the music 'telling' me this anyway. Adele's Rolling in the Deep is fairly typical of modern music. It starts with less in the first verse (just her voice). Other instruments come in as it crescendos to the first chorus. The chorus hold that energy from the cresendo - with the backing vocals. The second verse drops back, but keeps most of the musical elements in there at a lower volume. The second chorus matches the first; then there's a two-part bridge where they strip back again to basically drums, lead and backing vocals. Then the last chorus and out - a little higher level than the others. You can tone your dancing to match the music in each phrase pretty easily (eg more instruments gives a bigger sound, which suggests bigger moves). In this case, I'd dance each of the choruses similarly (maybe put a bit more into the last one) and each verse/bridge would be different. This is a very common pattern - although it's often more subtle.

    (The second track - Rumour Has It - is much more interesting ... )

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I thought I told you that wearing sunglasses in the Blues room was neither cool nor clever...
    You're thinking of hats.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post


    Or, as Lory says, you could just expose your ring at the right time..


    I just spat tea all over my keyboard

  11. #151
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by FoxyFunkster View Post
    Boring i know but a perfect example here by Jordan and Tatiana



    Watch from 1.20 to 1.30ish

    The last 2 sets of 8 the music is building up, so the energy in their dancing rises with the music then he does multiple spins which look really uncomfortable for her (but they actually aren't) then slowing down to highlight the Phrase change to chorus

    Again keep watching and you see more speed up to 1.40 for the end of the chorus.....
    Now,as someone who has never done WCS this is what makes WCS a winner over Blues for me.The fact that I knew the track certainly helped,but I could see what they were doing within the track in so far as I could identify the changes in timing(I am pretty sure I couldn't lead them though) and I felt as if I was following what they were doing instead of being completely bewildered

  12. #152
    Registered User FoxyFunkster's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Now,as someone who has never done WCS this is what makes WCS a winner over Blues for me.The fact that I knew the track certainly helped,but I could see what they were doing within the track in so far as I could identify the changes in timing(I am pretty sure I couldn't lead them though) and I felt as if I was following what they were doing instead of being completely bewildered
    Here is another awesome example but the beauty of this dance is that Kyle leads so much stuff without an fixed ending in sight giving Tatiana the space and opportunity to create the ending or the hit which she does brilliantly as usual



    The 1st 2 sets of 8 is just music with no lyrics so they just dance rhythmical swing
    The 3rd set you can see both Kyle and Tatiana highlighting the lyrics (she shoulder pops and he with footwork) Attaching to the lyrics
    4th and 5th sets back to rhythmical swing

    Then he sets up the major hit on counts 1 & 5 of the 6th set when he leads her into outside turns which she turns into magic but stopping her rotation mid flight hitting count 1 (leg extension) and reverses the leg position to hit on 5....Cue crowd and fellow Pro`s going mad

    This shows the genius of WCS musical conversation at it's very best....oh and the dance gets even better with the next hits which incidentally occur on the same 1 & 5 on the next phrase when she looks one way on the 1 and then he turns her head back on the 5....cue more cheering from the sidelines......

    Enjoy

  13. #153
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    You're thinking of hats.
    lol... yes, if you can't dance get a hat.. OR some black and white shoes... OR wear a vest top.. then your follows will naturally assume they can't follow your lead because they must be doing something wrong...

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    Re: Blues - A step too far

    Certainly there weren't many hats on show;three trilbys and one string skull cap;but joy of joys there wasn't a bandana in site!!!

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    lol... yes, if you can't dance get a hat.. OR some black and white shoes... OR wear a vest top.. then your follows will naturally assume they can't follow your lead because they must be doing something wrong...


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    Senior Member zimbabwean's Avatar
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    Re: Blues - A step too far

    Quote Originally Posted by Batgirl View Post
    It stopped being a 'lead and follow' dance and became more of a collaboration - this I liked.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Franck View Post
    IAs for 'beat dancers' vs 'feel dancers', I don't believe they are separate, based on my views above, all reasonable dancers are 'beat dancers', the degree of feeling and awareness of the music will come with good technique, connection and familiarity with a range of music.
    One thing I don't get is if these beat dancers are the better dancers, why such a prominent beat is required.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    One thing I don't get is if these beat dancers are the better dancers, why such a prominent beat is required.
    Who said it was?
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Who said it was?
    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    One thing I don't get is if these beat dancers are the better dancers, why such a prominent beat is required.
    Beat is a strong word and to some, and that would include me, it instantly conjures up the insistent driving beat of disco or modern 'dance' music. Not something that, in general, I wish to partner dance to. That calls for a handbag. I wish there were some other word we could use.

    As it is, I prefer to believe that I dance to the rhythm or to the melody, but that may not be the case; it's all pretty instinctive.

    A couple of times whilst slowly typing this post a pop-up saying 'auto-saved' has appeared. That could be a life saver.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    Beat is a strong word and to some, and that would include me, it instantly conjures up the insistent driving beat of disco or modern 'dance' music. Not something that, in general, I wish to partner dance to. That calls for a handbag. I wish there were some other word we could use.

    As it is, I prefer to believe that I dance to the rhythm or to the melody, but that may not be the case; it's all pretty instinctive.

    A couple of times whilst slowly typing this post a pop-up saying 'auto-saved' has appeared. That could be a life saver.
    definition of "beat" in music according to Wiki - pretty much sums it up

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_(music)

    Perhaps if you replace the word beat with pulse you will feel more comfortable with the concepts being discussed

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