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Thread: Blues - A step too far

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by martingold View Post
    maybe you think this because you are rhythm based and dont hear the music in the same way as stokie would
    I can watch dancers while listening to the music and I can understand what in the music has made them do what ever they did.

    We all hear the music but it is the ability to hear something within the music which makes you want to move a certain part of your body in musical way. There are things in the music which I know should be highlighted I just don't feel I have a vocabulary to interpret it.

    I hope this makes sense

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    Cool Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    When you start looking at Tat and Jordan you certainly don't feel that they are just dancing, you feel as if there is a story being acted infront of you. I would say that is not dancing to the beat.
    Please don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying that a beat dance is some form of poor relation. Each style of dance has its own merits. However, the very fact that Jordan & Tat are dancing WCS means that they will be working within the WCS framework. That's how they are able to lead/follow/connect. They are following the rules (and bending some) of WCS. The rules partly being... beat driven timing. I am NOT saying that WCS cannot be very musical.

    However, dressing up a slow WCS class as a Blues class is wrong as the two dances work from a different starting point musically. This will cause frustration and confusion

    I hope this isn't going to degenerate into one of those pointlessly dull, my dance is better than your dance threads....

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    While I'm enjoying snooping in on this discussion, would a lovely(tm) mod please add an extra 'o' in the appropriate place. It's making my eyes bleed every time I look at the thread title!!
    Blimey, I thought you were dead.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Yeah, that was a broad sweep of the brush I know.. but in the context of this discussion I think it sort of works as an explanation. Although 'just not dominant' is a little more accurate
    Oh, don't worry, your explanation was very informative - in fact, this whole thread has been very useful in clarifying things in my mind. You know what it's like when you know stuff but find it difficult to articulate - this has helped me immensely.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Blimey, I thought you were dead.
    No he's still around

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Oh, don't worry, your explanation was very informative - in fact, this whole thread has been very useful in clarifying things in my mind. You know what it's like when you know stuff but find it difficult to articulate - this has helped me immensely.

    funnily enough thats exactly what i was thinking
    i was amazed it hadnt turned into a your dance is better than my dance game and thought all participants were adding to our knowledge of all the dance styles

    I strongly feel lori had it right and that some of us hear the music in a totally different way to the others which is what makes us love different styles of music and gives us the freedom to express ourselves in our own unique way
    Last edited by Lory; 15th-June-2011 at 05:09 PM.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Please don't get me wrong. I am NOT saying that a beat dance is some form of poor relation. Each style of dance has its own merits. However, the very fact that Jordan & Tat are dancing WCS means that they will be working within the WCS framework. That's how they are able to lead/follow/connect. They are following the rules (and bending some) of WCS. The rules partly being... beat driven timing. I am NOT saying that WCS cannot be very musical.

    However, dressing up a slow WCS class as a Blues class is wrong as the two dances work from a different starting point musically. This will cause frustration and confusion

    I hope this isn't going to degenerate into one of those pointlessly dull, my dance is better than your dance threads....
    I thought we were talking about musicality

    Where I am within my dancing is that I can lead pretty well but as a dancer I am sh1t. This is not a jocular comment by the way

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Where I am within my dancing is that I can lead pretty well but as a dancer I am sh1t. This is not a jocular comment by the way
    and yet i know of loads of follows who love dancing with you gerry and i think this goes back to where we started
    if you love doing it and your partner loves what you are doing
    then you are dancing well

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    Cool Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Where I am within my dancing is that I can lead pretty well but as a dancer I am sh1t. This is not a jocular comment by the way
    I know people that dance with you socially and hold an altogether different opinion. Grabbing a dance with West Coast Gerry is high on the list of weekender stuff to do for people I know.

    Being able to lead a dance that is fun, well led and enjoyable for your partner is an ultimate goal of many dancers. You're already there, you just feel like you should be able to do more perhaps, but the reality is... as a dancer you ain't sh1t. This is not a jocular comment or a screen full of platitudes by the way

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    Re: Blues - A step too far

    I've just had a PM, asking me if I think that Rhythm based dancers can't be emotional as well?

    Yes, the certainly can and frequently are!

    But I don't think it will work the other way around...someone who can't hear the subtle nuances and underlying beats and rhythms, will never, IMO, be able to switch to playing within the structure of the beat!
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Where I am within my dancing is that I can lead pretty well but as a dancer I am sh1t.
    That's pretty much where I was 2-3 years ago in AT, so I'd say that sounds reasonable (you know what I mean! )

    Hopefully, I'm progressing as a dancer in AT now, I'd say I can "dance" OK in traditional style now - but not so much in nuevo.

    Don't tell anyone.

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Grabbing a dance with West Coast Gerry is high on the list of weekender stuff to do for people I know.
    Please don't label Gerry a WCS Gerry, he's not just WCS, he's extremely proficient at modern Jive too and absolutely LOVELY to dance with

    I wouldn't say he was very high on the emotional scale though
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    Re: Blues - A step too far

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I've just had a PM, asking me if I think that Rhythm based dancers can't be emotional as well?

    Yes, the certainly can and frequently are!

    But I don't think it will work the other way around...someone who can't hear the subtle nuances and underlying beats and rhythms, will never, IMO, be able to switch to playing within the structure of the beat!
    Well, blimey, they're both simply areas of skill. I don't think that anyone's inherently incapable of developing their ability in either area, or both. It's like saying "I can do maths therefore I can't learn to speak French" or something.

    I'm not even convinced that there's much truth in the "Oh, I'm genetically predisposed to be better at XYZ" argument either. I think people like doing different things, and work at those different things, but that's not the same as being especially talented or rubbish at those things.

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    Cool Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Please don't label Gerry a WCS Gerry, he's not just WCS, he's extremely proficient at modern Jive too and absolutely LOVELY to dance with
    I did not label him, I merely repeated what I have heard him affectionately known as

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    Re: Blues - A step too far

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post

    I'm not even convinced that there's much truth in the "Oh, I'm genetically predisposed to be better at XYZ" argument either.
    Have you ever been in a kids class, when they've been asked to CLAP in time with the music?

    You always get one or two that haven't got a clue! Are you telling me with enough practice they'll be able to become a drummer or a tap dancer..

    If so..sorry, your wrong!
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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Please don't label Gerry a WCS Gerry, he's not just WCS, he's extremely proficient at modern Jive too and absolutely LOVELY to dance with
    Some of the Northern girls affectionally call me this

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Ok I have to admit to being confused by this.

    Do we agree that this is Blues Dancing.
    (I am passing no opinion on the quality of this it is just an example of what I recognise as blues)



    If so then discussions about it not being beat based is ridiculous the guy leads his moves on a beat, he isn't stepping on each beat or every other beat, but he is working within the confines of the musical structure.

    No matter how you slice it, dance relates the the beats in the music - even if you stand still you are probably marking the beat somehow - a wiggle or a nod maybe. And perhaps that is what some of you are talking about, but it isn't clear what your point is.

    Good dancers dance on the beat, musical dancers choose which beats they dance to no matter what dance

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedon boy View Post
    .
    ........ just an example of what I recognise as blues...........



    Definitely blues, as I recognize it

    Wish I could move like that

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    Cool Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by clevedonboy View Post
    Good dancers dance on the beat, musical dancers choose which beats they dance to no matter what dance
    It doesn't really get more Blues than Damon

    Nobody said that you can't dance Blues to a beat did they? To me, it's the reliance on that beat that signals the difference between a beat style dance.

    When you have a track that hasn't got a beat, what then? For example time is being marked in this track but there's no 'real' beat. I have had some lovely Blues dances to this. I don't think I could manage even my sloppy attempt at WCS to it though

    And the point may be, why would I want to. If I have dance styles to call upon that better suit a track that being played, why try to force a dance into a shape that it really isn't designed for? *shrug*

    For me, music plays and a dance pops out when I hear it

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    Re: Blues - A step to far

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post

    When you have a track that hasn't got a beat, what then?
    Personally, I sit it out!


    For example time is being marked in this track but there's no 'real' beat. I have had some lovely Blues dances to this. I don't think I could manage even my sloppy attempt at WCS to it though
    Thank you so much for posting this, as its exactly this type of track that typifies what I feel uncomfortable with!

    And IMHO, would be the kind of track that would alienate most people, who've come on a MJ based weekender, from dancing in the room, if that was the only choice on offer
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