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Thread: Giving etiquette reminders

  1. #21
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    This isn't a Ceroc franchise, though

    Well, I totally failed at being assertive last night (no surprises there har har), but thankfully only competent people dipped and dropped me.
    The problem there is that the less competent have seen you being dipped and dropped, and therefore assume that you like/are good at it. So it becomes a vicious circle.

    Nothing wrong with being a bit assertive. Better luck next time!

  2. #22
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    But I think drops were stopped in Ceroc for safety reasons as classes were becoming too crowded. But for years drops and jumps were taught. Moves like the ballroom drop, the nose bleed, the ballroom jump and even half tumbles. Have they all been stopped? In classes I mean.
    Not as far as I know.

    Aerials are definitely banned. From here:
    8. The dancing, learning or practice of aerial moves is strictly forbidden at any Ceroc venue, save for the Ceroc Champs. Please note that this extends to any part of a Ceroc venue including corridors, the car park or private rooms. This rule applies irrespective of who you are dancing with and this includes a regular dance partner. If you are unsure about this rule, please speak with a Ceroc instructor at your local venue, but no exemptions will be granted.
    But as far as I know there's no rule against dips and drops. I think it is up to individual teachers to give advice on when it is sensible to attempt them.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Not as far as I know.
    I meant are drops still taught in Ceroc classes?

    Do jumps count as aerials "First Move Jump," for example.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    I meant are drops still taught in Ceroc classes?

    Do jumps count as aerials "First Move Jump," for example.
    Is the one where the follower stands with her back to the leader, places her hands palms down on the leader's palms-up hands, and is lifted up while the leader spins around, counted as an aerial? (Just curious, since this happens at my venue - as do various things that I would count as drops but involve the follower taking both her feet off the floor.)

    I'm unsure of the precise definitions

  5. #25
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    I meant are drops still taught in Ceroc classes?
    I think they tend to be taught in workshops rather than classes. Then only those who want to use them learn them, they can be taught in a slower and more detailed way and the teacher can see how everyone is getting on and give individual feedback where required.

    Any time I've been at a workshop where they are taught there has been clear guidelines about when to do them, safety points and leaders are told to ask followers if they are ok to do dips and drops - even if its a regular partner they've done them with before (as the follower may have sustained an injury since last dancing with that lead).

    I always like it when a leader does that, as apart from the fact that it gives me the chance to politely say if I don't want to do drops, it also reassures me that the lead is being considerate of me as a follower.

    Unfortunately there is nothing to stop someone going to a workshop and ignoring all the safety points (or worse still, half learning them from a DVD or from seeing someone do them) and then leading them incorrectly or even dangerously.
    Last edited by Lynn; 4th-June-2011 at 11:44 AM.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    Is the one where the follower stands with her back to the leader, places her hands palms down on the leader's palms-up hands, and is lifted up while the leader spins around, counted as an aerial? (Just curious, since this happens at my venue - as do various things that I would count as drops but involve the follower taking both her feet off the floor.)

    I'm unsure of the precise definitions
    Usually, that is called a Princess Lift. It's a minor but, yes, it's an aerial.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    First move jump is a basic first move but the leader signals by means of a tap their right shoulder with their right hand. as the follow pivots the leader crouches slightly, and also with their right hand a little further round the follows waist lifts her and throws the follow foward as the lead steps forward aided by a small jump by the follower. It was taught as a fairly basic intermediate move. Anyway is it also an aerial?

    Confused? You won't be after reading this.

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    Dickie Davies' love-child Cruella's Avatar
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    But I won't refuse anyone based on their ability - unless they're going to hurt me (which is almost impossible for a follower to do to a competent leader anyway)
    Oooh, a challenge!

    Be honest is my advice, tell the guys they aren't competent enough at the drops yet to be throwing them in to their freestyling (the clue is in the fact you ended up on the floor!)
    If they aren't told then they will continue to do them, eventually someone will get injured!

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Cruella View Post
    Oooh, a challenge!

    Be honest is my advice, tell the guys they aren't competent enough at the drops yet to be throwing them in to their freestyling (the clue is in the fact you ended up on the floor!)
    If they aren't told then they will continue to do them, eventually someone will get injured!
    Except that some of them will just get the hump with you, never ask you to dance again and just carry on as before with everyone else. Which is a result of sorts, I suppose.

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    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    First move jump is a basic first move but the leader signals by means of a tap their right shoulder with their right hand. as the follow pivots the leader crouches slightly, and also with their right hand a little further round the follows waist lifts her and throws the follow foward as the lead steps forward aided by a small jump by the follower. It was taught as a fairly basic intermediate move. Anyway is it also an aerial?
    Yes, in my book.

    As taught by Ceroc, the move actually covers a reasonable amount of distance. And of course, there's no way of changing direction halfway. I remember that whenever it was taught, the subsequent freestyle was a bit like being under artillery fire; the temptation to scream "Incoming!" when you saw someone prepare a first move jump aimed straight at your partner was strong!

    Also, as I was taught it at Ceroc the lead also provides a "second lift point" by forming a strong base with the left hand. Now your average dancer isn't going to do a whole lot with that lift point, but a high-level aerials couple can. I've seen a Lindy couple do essentially this move, with the girl going to almost overhead height and covering about 6 meters horizontally.

    I'm sure you could do the same thing with the Ceroc version with a bit of practice. At which point there's absolutely no way it's acceptable on a normal dance night. Note that this isn't actually doing the move "differently from how Ceroc teaches it". When they taught this move, the teacher always talked about providing a base with the left hand that the woman can put weight on, and often emphasized that this was the key to getting the move to work well. It's just that a good aerials couple can take that rather further than expected!

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Usually, that is called a Princess Lift. It's a minor but, yes, it's an aerial.
    Was taught it, by Ceroc, as a Ballroom Jump.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Don't wait for the leaders to (fail to) ask - just say as you walk out onto the floor for a dance, "I'm not comfortable doing dips, drops or leans so please don't do them with me, thanks." If they do do one with you after you saying this, push them away and walk off the dancefloor. No explanation should be given since you've given it already. Feel free to tell lots of other people about the numpty who is either deaf or stupid.

    (Unless it turns out they're actually deaf. That would be bad.)

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    There are three valid reasons to refuse a dance in MJ - and one of those is if they may hurt you. (the other two are if they smell or if they're pervs )

    Does anyone refuse a dance because someone is smelly? If so, do you just refuse without saying why?
    Most dancers are so good at making sure they stay fresh, but every now and then you find a gaggingly bad one, who is often a good dancer but is just unaware of their problem...

  14. #34
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by carollloyd View Post
    Does anyone refuse a dance because someone is smelly? If so, do you just refuse without saying why?
    Most dancers are so good at making sure they stay fresh, but every now and then you find a gaggingly bad one, who is often a good dancer but is just unaware of their problem...
    I do hope Double Trouble see this... she has a particularly unique and direct approach

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by carollloyd View Post
    Does anyone refuse a dance because someone is smelly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I do hope Double Trouble see this... she has a particularly unique and direct approach


    There are two things I will not accept from a dance partner. Firstly, I will not dance with someone if their shirt is soaked in sweat, regardless of whether they stink or not. I'll ask them if they have a change of shirt and if not I tell them I don't want their sweat on my clothes so no thanks.

    Secondly, if someone smells I'll either have a word with the organiser and get them to speak to the stinker or I have on a few occasions just told them straight that they should shower, use deodorant and wear clean clothes when dancing. Being smelly doesn't happen immediately after a shower, even if you spend a few hours dancing, generally if someone stinks it means they haven't had a shower that day or in the previous few days and that is disgusting when you're in close contact with lots of people for dancing and completely unacceptable. I have no problem with telling people and I don't think I'm being rude or cruel...it might be embarrassing for them initially to be told about something so personal, but I'm doing them a favour in the long run.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    Last night he also decided to lead me into the one where I nearly pass out.


    The mind boggles! I'm thinking maybe he spins you on the floor until you black out? or maybe bangs your head on the floor over and over? Or maybe he does that pressure point thing to make you go to sleep?

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    I've seen a Lindy couple do essentially this move, with the girl going to almost overhead height and covering about 6 meters horizontally.
    Yep, that's a fairly basic move in Lindy. I'd also add that there's no taps on the shoulder , it's actually led.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post


    There are two things I will not accept from a dance partner. Firstly, I will not dance with someone if their shirt is soaked in sweat, regardless of whether they stink or not. I'll ask them if they have a change of shirt and if not I tell them I don't want their sweat on my clothes so no thanks.

    Secondly, if someone smells I'll either have a word with the organiser and get them to speak to the stinker or I have on a few occasions just told them straight that they should shower, use deodorant and wear clean clothes when dancing. Being smelly doesn't happen immediately after a shower, even if you spend a few hours dancing, generally if someone stinks it means they haven't had a shower that day or in the previous few days and that is disgusting when you're in close contact with lots of people for dancing and completely unacceptable. I have no problem with telling people and I don't think I'm being rude or cruel...it might be embarrassing for them initially to be told about something so personal, but I'm doing them a favour in the long run.
    I wish I had the self confidence to do that. Normally I just try to avoid them, or if they do ask then I force them to keep a long lead

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    The mind boggles! I'm thinking maybe he spins you on the floor until you black out? or maybe bangs your head on the floor over and over? Or maybe he does that pressure point thing to make you go to sleep?
    I don't know what it's called but actually the name is kind of irrelevant - basically it puts my head at a much lower level than my heart and I get severe headrush when I come back up, especially when pulled up at speed.

    He knows that and still does it anyway. I need to learn to sabotage

  19. #39
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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    He knows that and still does it anyway. I need to learn to sabotage
    Whoever is doing this needs to learn some respect for you if he's doing something you've said you don't like - that is an appalling way to behave!

    And yes, you need to learn to sabotage. In the meantime, just refuse to do it, or if he does it again, simply walk off the dancefloor as soon as you're upright and leave him standing there like a numpty. He'll soon learn not to do it.

    Dance is a partnership, not one person forcing the other to do something they don't want to do

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    I don't know what it's called but actually the name is kind of irrelevant - basically it puts my head at a much lower level than my heart and I get severe headrush when I come back up, especially when pulled up at speed.

    He knows that and still does it anyway. I need to learn to sabotage
    No, you need to not dance with him.

    Simples.

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