Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 47

Thread: Arrested for Dancing

  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Touche

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Because dancing is self expression and Thomas jefferson was supposedly kinda big on those kind of things being free..
    That doesn't mean you can express yourself in whatever way you want, in the middle of a national monument.

    The judge in this case sums it up as:
    The court determined that, despite the fact that the monument is open to the public, it is a “nonpublic forum” because it has a “solemn commemorative purpose” incompatible with the full range of free expression
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    America has quite an interesting take on freedoms, etc. They give and take quite arbitrarily and they seem to have extreme views on both sides of the fence.
    Freedom of expression is limited - it has to be. Otherwise you'd have a constitutionally-protected "right" to go into someone's house and start yelling abuse at the owner. Which is pretty much what these guys did.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    The "protestors" asked quite clearly what law they were breaking and the police had no answer.
    The answer is “interfering with an agency function” and “demonstrating without a permit” in violation of the National Park Service Regulations, 36 C.F.R. § 7.96(g)(3)(ii)(C).

    And why do you put "protestors" in quotes? They are activists, and they were protesting. They're not dancers.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    If I am about to be arrested, I would like to think the police have some idea of why they are arresting me.
    Don't get me wrong, the police were clearly heavy-handed. But they were acting legally - it's simply that their methods may have been OTT.
    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Is "protestors" really the right word to accurately describe the mixed sex couple who got arrested first.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Is our view such that we see what they were doing as a demonstration?
    Yes. Because it was.

  3. #23
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    These weren't dancers, they were protesters.
    The only protests were about their abuse by the police. I suppose you could argue that their "dancing" was the protest, but what next - if the police hear about a "looking up at the statue" protest, will they arrest everyone in there for "protesting". Why did the police not simply chuck them out? And why did the police not make it clear on camera what their issue was? and what they exactly were arresting people for? Clear as mud I think. The police may well have had valid reasons for arresting people, but that did not come across in the video. I've met more eloquent bouncers outside nightclubs.

    they expected to get arrested, which is precisely why they had so many recording devices up and running.
    Everyone I meet nowadays has a recording device, its not a big deal.

    Quite right. Wrestling moves and throat holds on someone with their hands in the air is "excessive" by anyones standards.

    So, basically, the whole story is "protesters provoke police and get arrested for it.".
    If thats provocation - do you just get shot in the face if you dare to hold a placard?
    Last edited by Dreadful Scathe; 3rd-June-2011 at 09:24 PM.

  4. #24
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    I enjoyed the FOX news broadcast that narrated over the top of a policeman body slamming someone to the floor with "the video appears to show officers slamming protesters to the ground" lol , basically we're not sure, its not a good quality video, perhaps the video had tilted slightly and the policeman was simply giving someone a hug

  5. #25
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    anyway, already bored with stupid stunts and police brutality.

    What about this

    More protests about the ground zero mosque that isn't a mosque and isnt at ground zero. Apparantly the confused, or possibly stupid, protesters, menacingly surrounded two Egyptian men. They were christians also come to protest the "mosque" but they made the mistake of looking a bit "Muslimy" and speaking, oh horror, in Arabic. Although the "Muslimy" thing probably would have done on its own.

    Its funny. Except its not .

    If only the park police had been there to slam some of those actual threatening protesters to the ground and put them in choke holds. aah, sorry, no mention of them silent dancing...putting people in fear of their lives is probably a few numbers lower down on the scale. Understandably so really - as DJ says, it was very poor dancing at the memorial and probably deserved a few kicks to the head all things considered. Got off lightly. .

  6. #26
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The only protests were about their abuse by the police.
    OK, then, they were demonstrators - although the difference between demonstration and protest seems to be blurred now. They were a group of activists, who were staging a deliberate action in the hope and expectation of provoking a reaction and gaining publicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I suppose you could argue that their "dancing" was the protest, but what next - if the police hear about a "looking up at the statue" protest, will they arrest everyone in there for "protesting".
    THe police were trying to enforce the law as laid out by a judge. The judge said "no dancing at that place", the police were simply doing their jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Why did the police not simply chuck them out?
    It's a good question, actually - I assume because there were more protestors than police, and the policemen decided that it was better to arrest people than try to force them outside.

    Wrong call, obviously, and done badly to boot. So I'm certainly not defending the police tactics, just pointing out that the group of "dancers" had a clear agenda. They were there explicitly to provoke a reaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Everyone I meet nowadays has a recording device, its not a big deal.
    Oh come on, there were loads of cameras recording the scene, they were clearly well-prepared for action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    If thats provocation - do you just get shot in the face if you dare to hold a placard?
    Blimey, did you even read the link?

  7. #27
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Fife.
    Posts
    5,701
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That doesn't mean you can express yourself in whatever way you want, in the middle of a national monument.
    Freedom of expression is limited - it has to be. Otherwise you'd have a constitutionally-protected "right" to go into someone's house and start yelling abuse at the owner. Which is pretty much what these guys did.


    The answer is “interfering with an agency function” and “demonstrating without a permit” in violation of the National Park Service Regulations, 36 C.F.R. § 7.96(g)(3)(ii)(C).

    And why do you put "protestors" in quotes? They are activists, and they were protesting. They're not dancers.


    Don't get me wrong, the police were clearly heavy-handed. But they were acting legally - it's simply that their methods may have been OTT.
    Freedom of speech must be limited?? Is dancing a little too liberal for U, David?? They were hardly pissing on his shoes were they? They were moving. Just moving. 2 of them were swaying: not an ocho in sight, just swaying.

    I'm sure the G8 protestors could learn a thing or two from these hardened criminals!!

    Going into someone else's house would come under trespassing, attempted burglery, harrassment, etc. Freedom of expression is one thing, freedom to abuse another I something different. I didn't see the dancers abuse anyone...

    The infringement... did U make that up?? Or research it?? either way, u sure as hell didn't get it from the arresting officer.

    I put "protestors" in quotes because I was quoting someone else. It's a tradition we have over here. Feel free to send a cop to bash my face in if U feel that's too liberal for U.

    The police were acting legally?!?!?!!?? Can U hear yourself?!?!?

    Swap "dancers" with "Jews", David. So, using your principles, Nazis gassing jews are OK because they were acting within the legalities of that system?? Admittedly, their methods may bave been OTT.

    Because we see the dancers as soft hippy lefties, who need to go out and get a real job, it makes it alright??

  8. #28
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post

    Blimey, did you even read the link?
    There's nothing about reading links that implies I will then come out with a reasoned response. I have nothing better to do on a Friday night right now

  9. #29
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Freedom of speech must be limited??
    Yep. And it always has been, even in the USA. Do you disagree?

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Is dancing a little too liberal for U, David?? They were hardly pissing on his shoes were they? They were moving. Just moving. 2 of them were swaying: not an ocho in sight, just swaying.
    So, what, blues dancing is OK but other dancing is not? Surely you can see how ridiculous that is - once you start defining what type of dancing is allowable and what is not, you're asking the police to become dance judges.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Going into someone else's house would come under trespassing, attempted burglery, harrassment, etc. Freedom of expression is one thing, freedom to abuse another I something different. I didn't see the dancers abuse anyone...
    They went into a publically-owned building, it was effectively going into the government's "house". The government reserves the right to enforce rules about what is and is not acceptable behaviour in its buildings.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    The infringement... did U make that up?? Or research it??
    I clicked on a news link, from the original article. Took about 20 seconds including cut-and-paste time.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    either way, u sure as hell didn't get it from the arresting officer.
    Absolutely. The police handled it badly - as I've said three times now. Shall I put it in caps next time?

    But their methods are one discussion, the actual factual legal situation is another. These guys were breaking the law, and they knew it. Under the law, they were acting in a criminal way.

    So, complain about the law being silly (it may be), complain about the police handling the situation badly (they may well have), but you can't deny that they knowingly committed a crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Swap "dancers" with "Jews", David. So, using your principles, Nazis gassing jews are OK because they were acting within the legalities of that system??
    You know, I think that's the first Godwin I've seen on the forum?

  10. #30
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Swap "dancers" with "Jews", David. So, using your principles, Nazis gassing jews are OK because they were acting within the legalities of that system?? Admittedly, their methods may bave been OTT.
    David is 100% correct to invoke Godwin's Law on Mr Ceroc Jock here, which makes David the winner of this debate

    Congrats David, nicely played sir, can the last person out of this thread please switch off the lights

  11. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sri Lanka
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    You know, I think that's the first Godwin I've seen on the forum?
    Are you sure it hasn't recently?

    I'm sorry, my mistake, someone inh the Scottish Independence thread said replace English with Jewish.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Hove Actually
    Posts
    7,924
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    Are you sure it hasn't recently?

    I'm sorry, my mistake, someone inh the Scottish Independence thread said replace English with Jewish.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sri Lanka
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    Well, as Godwin's Law is supposed to be light hearted I was attempting a joke. Obviously didn't work.

  14. #34
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    no, it didnt

  15. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sri Lanka
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Arrested for Dancing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    no, it didnt
    Not for the first time. So moving swiftly on.

  16. #36
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Hitler Wasn't the First!

    Quote Originally Posted by CJ View Post
    Swap "dancers" with "Jews", David. So, using your principles, Nazis gassing jews are OK because they were acting within the legalities of that system
    I don't think exterminating Jews was law in Germany. The majority of Germans are of high moral standing and I believe the German people wouldn't have supported a law which made it compulsory to exterminate a race, faith or clan.

    As opposed to the Scottish Parliament;
    Quote Originally Posted by An Act of the Scottish Parliament from 1617 (translated into modern English):
    “ It was ordained that the name of MacGregor should be abolished and that the whole persons of that name should renounce their name and take some other name and that they nor none of their name and that they nor none of their posterity should call themselves Gregor or MacGregor under pain of death .... that any person or persons of the said clan who has already renounced their names or hereafter shall renounce their names or if any of their children or posterity shall at any time hereafter assume or take to themselves the name of Gregor or MacGregor .... that every such person or persons assuming or taking to themselves the said name .... shall incurr the pain of death which pain shall be executed upon them without favour.
    In other words, you gave up your clan or they killed you. They didn't have gas chambers so they just chopped off your head! And this wasn't a short-run thing. Nothing like 1939-1945: the decendants of Gregor were hunted down and killed legally from 1617-1774. It ended when our clan was forgiven and stopped being the 'Children of the Mist".

    The expansionist Campbells were the equivalent of the Nazi party of the day. What clan is CJ?

    p.s. Topic?

  17. #37
    Commercial Operator StokeBloke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Stoke-on-Trent
    Posts
    2,366
    Rep Power
    10

    Cool Re: Hitler Wasn't the First!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    As opposed to the Scottish Parliament;
    Originally Posted by An Act of the Scottish Parliament from 1617 (translated into modern English):
    “ It was ordained that the name of MacGregor should be abolished and that the whole persons of that name should renounce their name and take some other name and that they nor none of their name and that they nor none of their posterity should call themselves Gregor or MacGregor under pain of death .... that any person or persons of the said clan who has already renounced their names or hereafter shall renounce their names or if any of their children or posterity shall at any time hereafter assume or take to themselves the name of Gregor or MacGregor .... that every such person or persons assuming or taking to themselves the said name .... shall incurr the pain of death which pain shall be executed upon them without favour.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    In other words, you gave up your clan or they killed you. They didn't have gas chambers so they just chopped off your head! And this wasn't a short-run thing. Nothing like 1939-1945: the decendants of Gregor were hunted down and killed legally from 1617-1774. It ended when our clan was forgiven and stopped being the 'Children of the Mist".
    Andy, is that why you've dropped the first 'a' out of MacGregor? Sneaky, but perfectly legal

  18. #38
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Hitler Wasn't the First!

    Quote Originally Posted by StokeBloke View Post
    Andy, is that why you've dropped the first 'a' out of MacGregor? Sneaky, but perfectly legal
    I'm not sure where we lost our 'a'. Many of Rob Roy's decendants seem to have ended up in Canada without the 'a'. Having said that, my dad has always said that we are decended from Rob Roy - I expect that most sons of Gregor make that claim. And a claim for "FREEDOM!"

    One of my Scottish McGregor Aunts is now Jewish and living in Israel*.

    *I should be writing something clever or funny about persecuted races, faiths and clans getting together - but I'm not clever enough to do so without offending someone, somewhere.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    204
    Rep Power
    7

    Re: Hitler Wasn't the First!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    *I should be writing something clever or funny about persecuted races, faiths and clans getting together - but I'm not clever enough to do so without offending someone, somewhere.
    Pah. You'll offend somebody somewhere with every word you speak/write. And there'll be someone who is offended if you say nothing at all, as well.

  20. #40
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Hitler Wasn't the First!

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    Pah. You'll offend somebody somewhere with every word you speak/write. And there'll be someone who is offended if you say nothing at all, as well.
    You got me! I just couldn't think of anything funny

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Who are they?
    By Brian Doolan in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 26th-April-2010, 04:45 PM
  2. O.J. arrested
    By Barry Shnikov in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 19th-September-2007, 01:46 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •