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Thread: Is the MJ scene struggling?

  1. #21
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post


    I think they have forgotten a few things. Ceroc really took off in about 1996/97. Possibly they could look at what they were doing then. This was probably my favourite time.

    yes we can't do :

    Bouncy bouncy anymore without hearing about footwork, lead, posture, style etc

    What the *** is that all about, since when did that have anything to do with dance

    How many men left now days that have been dancing for decades but know just 8 moves ,not many I think

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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Bouncy bouncy anymore without hearing about footwork, lead, posture, style etc

    What the *** is that all about, since when did that have anything to do with dance

    How many men left now days that have been dancing for decades but know just 8 moves ,not many I think


    Posture? Style?

    As a taxi when asked about style I used to say you have to develop that yourself but as a tip I added kick the odd leg to the side or click your fingers, the rest will come.

    And as for posture, James Cronin once in a while would tell us to lean forward and try to dance on the balls of your feet. That was it.

    But somehow it worked. When you're learning and having fun you don't need that kind of baggage especially if you are a bloke.

  3. #23
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    yes we can't do :

    Bouncy bouncy anymore without hearing about footwork, lead, posture, style etc

    What the *** is that all about, since when did that have anything to do with dance
    Well - my knee-jerk reaction is "Everything!"

    A slightly more useful answer could run along the lines of:
    Footwork: so you can dance better, more efficiently, faster, more smoothly, get extra 'tools' for musical interpretation, improve your lead / follow / connection, and to get more out your dancing, and enjoy it more. To name but a few things.

    Lead .... you actually have to ask? A few examples: connect better with your partner. Learn to lead more movements, with more subtlety or speed or gentleness... which will let you get more out of your dancing and enjoy it more.

    Posture: Good posture will also improve your connection, your balance, your ability to move, and perhaps most importantly, it will help you avoid back problems and other related issues which bad posture can bring about. One consequence of all these is to help you get more out of your dancing, and enjoy it more. Sensing a subtle common thread here?

  4. #24
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Well - my knee-jerk reaction is "Everything!"

    A slightly more useful answer could run along the lines of:
    Footwork: so you can dance better, more efficiently, faster, more smoothly, get extra 'tools' for musical interpretation, improve your lead / follow / connection, and to get more out your dancing, and enjoy it more. To name but a few things.

    Lead .... you actually have to ask? A few examples: connect better with your partner. Learn to lead more movements, with more subtlety or speed or gentleness... which will let you get more out of your dancing and enjoy it more.

    Posture: Good posture will also improve your connection, your balance, your ability to move, and perhaps most importantly, it will help you avoid back problems and other related issues which bad posture can bring about. One consequence of all these is to help you get more out of your dancing, and enjoy it more. Sensing a subtle common thread here?

    Errrrr, it was a joke, me gives up

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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Errrrr, it was a joke, me gives up
    I nearly fell for it, luckily left the honours to Straycat.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by stewart38 View Post
    Errrrr, it was a joke, me gives up
    Sorry about that - I obviously had a sense of humour failure, and didn't get it . Would you explain the punchline again?

  7. #27
    Registered User Allez-Cat's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    why try harder to promote Mj, create a buzz?
    Good God ...

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    So, I've heard a couple more reports that attendance at MJ class nights overall is down.

    I'm almost completely isolated from this - my only regular venue is Berko, and the numbers there are almost always solid - but have others experienced this?

    I do wonder if the weekender events are leeching people away from the class nights - when it seems that you basically have a weekender every weekend, class night attendance has to be hit to an extent.

    Or is it a more general issue that MJ itself is becoming less popular?

  9. #29
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So, I've heard a couple more reports that attendance at MJ class nights overall is down.

    I'm almost completely isolated from this - my only regular venue is Berko, and the numbers there are almost always solid - but have others experienced this?

    I do wonder if the weekender events are leeching people away from the class nights - when it seems that you basically have a weekender every weekend, class night attendance has to be hit to an extent.

    Or is it a more general issue that MJ itself is becoming less popular?
    I was talking to a venue manager about this who said that attendance is 30-40% down generally (this came from Ceroc management). He seemed to think that where you've got several venues within easy reach, where a couple of years back people might have gone dancing 2-3 nights a week, they've cut it down to 1 due to reduced disposable income, of which petrol cost is probably a factor.

    I don't know that the availability of weekenders is such a huge factor in attending weekly classes. Due to other commitments, it doesn't look like I'll be doing anything until Camber in November , but that isn't going to make me go to more weekly classes. It's a totally different experience.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So, I've heard a couple more reports that attendance at MJ class nights overall is down.
    The only people who might have the answer to this are Ceroc HQ and i suspect they are not going to share with us their statistics

    But in the Bristol arial there is still plenty of choice

    Monday 2 classes
    Tuesday 3 Classes
    Wednesday 3 Classes
    Thursday 2 Classes

    I usually dance on a Tuesday. My class yesterday, was very well attended, with equal leads and follows and an age range from 8 to late 60s

    i gather all the other classes are well attended, some suffering from men over some from ladies over

    As far as I can see, MJ is alive and well

    some classes have failed, but only because of a very poor product
    eg

    Same jokes and play list week after week
    Class not starting on time
    Last edited by philsmove; 8th-June-2011 at 10:55 AM.

  11. #31
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    The only people who might have the answer to this are Ceroc HQ and i suspect they are not going to share with us their statistics
    Actually the figures I quoted are from Ceroc HQ, via a couple of venue owners.

  12. #32
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Actually the figures I quoted are from Ceroc HQ, via a couple of venue owners.
    Sorry I had not seen the post.

  13. #33
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I think this is definitely a contributory factor, certainly for me it is anyway.
    Definitely the case for me too sadly.

  14. #34
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I was talking to a venue manager about this who said that attendance is 30-40% down generally (this came from Ceroc management).
    Yes, that seems to be in line with what I've heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    He seemed to think that where you've got several venues within easy reach, where a couple of years back people might have gone dancing 2-3 nights a week, they've cut it down to 1 due to reduced disposable income, of which petrol cost is probably a factor.
    Could be. God knows, the cost of everything seems to have gone through the roof recently

    On the other hand, it's always easy to find excuses. The weather, other things happening, school holidays, etc. etc.

    And if you look at it, a MJ / Ceroc night is pretty damn cheap - you can get an entire evening, with a couple of soft drinks, for a tenner. Which is less than the price of (just taking one recent example) going to see a completely rubbish Johnny Depp film .

    Ahem.

    So I guess my point is, is this reduced attendance a factor of the economy, or is it due to other reasons? Are people not going out much at all? Or are they spending their money on other things (other dance styles, weekenders, rubbish Disney movies etc.)?

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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    So I guess my point is, is this reduced attendance a factor of the economy, or is it due to other reasons? Are people not going out much at all? Or are they spending their money on other things (other dance styles, weekenders, rubbish Disney movies etc.)?
    How long is a piece of string?

    There are probably as many different reasons as there are people.

    One thing that would be interesting to know is how many new people are starting Ceroc/MJ? I have the impression that it's a business that relies on throughput. People start, get enthusiastic, become competent, hit a plateau, get a bit bored, try some other form of dance, do both for a bit, maybe move onto the new form and not do the MJ at all or reduce their participation. Certainly that has been my journey. If you're not getting the new bodies through the door, then you're going to have fewer people attending regular class nights (though they may still do weekenders and freestyles). Also other aspects of life take over (like having children) that might reduce their attendance.

  16. #36
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    I danced recently at the venue I started off at 11 years ago, down by about 75%, used to be really buzzing, now actually quite sad, more competition, people have less money and dare I say it, maybee not so fashionable these days.

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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    I danced recently at the venue I started off at 11 years ago, down by about 75%, used to be really buzzing, now actually quite sad, more competition, people have less money and dare I say it, maybee not so fashionable these days.
    Good grief, was MJ fashionable? Why didn't somebody tell me?

  18. #38
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    Could the competitions have anything to do with it?

    I ask because when I began there were no competitions or even weekenders. In London there must have been at least 15 new people beginning every day per class (I know because I went every day). Of course there may have been people leaving too. How many new people start each class these days?

    When there are competitions those competing rarely dance with beginners and or dance with them less. This I think can make the beginners feel left out and so put off. Also I wonder if too many intermediates are snobs (as has been discussed in other threads).

    Is there more pressure on people to aim towards competition rather than just learning to dance and having a laugh Has the social side been lost? For example having a drink after the class.

    I am speaking specifically of Ceroc not MJ in general.

  19. #39
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    go www.proxify.com
    inside it invoke www.google.com
    search for dance class (your town)
    eg dance class bedford

    You are now seeing the Google search results as though you were not previously known to Google

    Franck's venues may rank higher in the results than some others because he has put his venues on the Google map.

    Ceroc HQ were informed of the importance of having venues on the Google map years ago, along with many other search optimisation issues.

    It is a free service, but the franchisee will have to answer a letter/phone call

    I am informed by Stefan Drew, a BBC consultant, that it also greatly improves the auto search presence on mobile devices. I cannot check that.

  20. #40
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: Is the MJ scene struggling?

    I'd be interested to see the 'seasonally-adjusted' figures - I'm pretty sure numbers usually drop at this time of year anyway.

    However the combination of numbers down overall (assuming they are) and seasonal effects could take some venues below critical mass and effectively could kill the venue off.
    Love dance, will travel

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