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Thread: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

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    Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I havnt had a problem for a long time maybe people dont see Joe as a child?

    It dose seem to me that some of the people that have had issues with children in the dance world are the ones that dont want there children been allowed into it, it could be that it world be hard work (children are) or it would make there secret dance life to visable
    As a dance teacher I do have a problem with children mixing with adults in partner dance lessons.

    The problem is that adults can get their hands on children. And that has the potential to attract the wrong kind of adults. I took advice before setting the age limit for my lessons. The advice was that adults who want to get their hands on children have no interest once those children get to 14.

    Sometimes I do get parents asking if their can bring their 12 year old. I say they can come in for free but they must only do the lessons with their parents or people approved by the parents - they must not join in the general lesson. I make sure the parents know it's their responsibility to keep an eye on their child, not mine.

    Even when children get to 14 you do still need to be watchful. Some girls of 14 look stunning and are fully developed women. Grown men with a healthy interest in women might make a pass. That's a very different situation from attracting the kind of person who is interested in children. But it is the same criminal offence!

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I havnt had a problem for a long time maybe people dont see Joe as a child?

    It dose seem to me that some of the people that have had issues with children in the dance world are the ones that dont want there children been allowed into it, it could be that it world be hard work (children are) or it would make there secret dance life to visable
    There's a big difference between a teenager like Joe, taller than me and well aware of dance floor etiquette, floorcraft etc and a couple of 6 or 7 year olds 'playing' at dancing.
    If my knee accidentally caught Joe as I was dancing, I'd apologise and I'm sure everything would be OK (assuming no damage caused ), however, if my knee had caught one of those kids, there would've been at least a bloody nose or black eye and they would've gone flying. Not to mention that during swing hour feet were up to at least knee height too.

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    I thought Ceroc had a 16+ policy in place anyway? I was wondering about the kids in the blues room at Southport, quite small ones too. Nothing wrong with teaching children to dance and including them in the fun all the adults are having, but as Andy says there is the potential for a great deal of wrongness. I suppose parental supervision is required and possibly dances requested through the parents too?

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    There's a big difference between a teenager like Joe, taller than me and well aware of dance floor etiquette, floorcraft etc and a couple of 6 or 7 year olds 'playing' at dancing.
    If my knee accidentally caught Joe as I was dancing, I'd apologise and I'm sure everything would be OK (assuming no damage caused ), however, if my knee had caught one of those kids, there would've been at least a bloody nose or black eye and they would've gone flying. Not to mention that during swing hour feet were up to at least knee height too.
    I hear what you are saying Gav, and thats hy forund it quite bizar knowing your interest in lindy why you would come and sit at the same talble and dance right next to the children there were 3 dance floors to choice from and lots of space why put your self in that position?

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    This is just a guess, but is the no-kids policy at Ceroc an insurance thing? I'd imagine there would be a lot of more clauses/expense if you were trying to insure your venue to be child-safe.

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    Whilst threadomancy is contentious, I think it's probably worth mentioning that we've had this exact discussion at least a couple of times before:



    So it may be worth looking at those two discussions. Hey, who knows, we may even find we have different opinions now...

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by CheesyRobMan View Post
    I thought Ceroc had a 16+ policy in place anyway? I was wondering about the kids in the blues room at Southport, quite small ones too. Nothing wrong with teaching children to dance and including them in the fun all the adults are having, but as Andy says there is the potential for a great deal of wrongness. I suppose parental supervision is required and possibly dances requested through the parents too?
    From the Scorch FAQ:

    Can I bring children?
    Yes, providing they are yours!

    To be honest the event is not children friendly and we do not advise that you bring them, but if you have no option then it is under the following provisos:

    Children are required to pay full price and they will be issued with appropriate wrist bands when they arrive on site just as the adults.

    We would ask that no children under the age of 11 are permitted into any dance venue unless accompanied by an adult and supervised at all times. And in any event no children under the age of 11 are allowed to be in any dance venue beyond 10pm.

    We would also ask that all children between 11 and 14 vacate the main Entertainment's area by 1am.
    Seems fairly clear. If the rules were being broken, I'd pass this on to Ceroc HQ and ask them to monitor things more closely.

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    This is just a guess, but is the no-kids policy at Ceroc an insurance thing? I'd imagine there would be a lot of more clauses/expense if you were trying to insure your venue to be child-safe.
    My insurance is with the UKA. This is a dance organisation and most of the students who are taught by UKA teachers are probably children. Our insurance covers the teaching of children.

    However the UKA do also have Child Protection policies.

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    I understand that there must be a policy for children. But as with the adults there are variations.

    Those of you who are regulars at Fulham Thursday nights may remember in the last 4/5 years Rachel. She was the regular demo. She was about 16 or 17.

    She began dancing with her mum when she was 9. Of course she didn't join in the class, but we use to dance with her for fun during freestyle ad she picked it up so fast, that by 12 she was dancing as a man in the beginners class.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    There's a big difference between a teenager like Joe, taller than me and well aware of dance floor etiquette, floorcraft etc and a couple of 6 or 7 year olds 'playing' at dancing.
    If my knee accidentally caught Joe as I was dancing, I'd apologise and I'm sure everything would be OK (assuming no damage caused ), however, if my knee had caught one of those kids, there would've been at least a bloody nose or black eye and they would've gone flying. Not to mention that during swing hour feet were up to at least knee height too.
    The 2 children dancing at swingers hour were actually dancing properly, in time and had more floor etiquette than some of the other couples. They were well supervised, didn't run around, danced so close to the dj table so as not to be in any danger.

    Also how many people did you see kicking 3 ft in the air! I didn't see any!

    All children should be able to come if they are well behaved, supervised and have an interest in the dancing.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    All children should be able to come if they are well behaved, supervised and have an interest in the dancing.
    That sentiment seems a little at odds with the official statement:
    To be honest the event is not children friendly and we do not advise that you bring them
    Or at least, confusing. Maybe it's worth rephrasing the official statement?

    Also, whilst I'm sure the children in question were lovely dancers, and I think it's good in general to encourage children to learn to dance, the fact remains, they're children. The rules are different for kids.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Well, maybe it was just me and maybe I'd feel different if it was my kids, but

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    Also how many people did you see kicking 3 ft in the air! I didn't see any!
    Well, starting with this one. Me for one and I think you'll find I used my knee as an example, but as I was Lindy-hopping, rather than MJing at silly speed, my feet and knees reaching 3 feet is perfectly normal!

    But if you want to be picky, what if it was a swing-out? If I had a lapse of concentration and swung my partner out into another adult, they would be irritated and maybe get knocked off balance. Do you really think that a small child would fare so well?


    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    The 2 children dancing at swingers hour were actually dancing properly, in time and had more floor etiquette than some of the other couples. They were well supervised, didn't run around, danced so close to the dj table so as not to be in any danger.
    I agree, they were well behaved and in the safest spot on the dance-floor, etc; but that's completely missing the point.
    The reason they had plenty of space is because those of us nearby were conscious that there were small children nearby and we didn't want them to get hurt, regardless of whose fault it was. For me, having to worry about where those small children are in relation to my feet and knees, took away some of my enjoyment of the dance.

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    All children should be able to come if they are well behaved, supervised and have an interest in the dancing.
    I agree entirely, however, if I only have your word that they will be, then I will still be worried that some random child will appear where I was about to kick.

    IMHO, children should indeed be welcome, but until they are adult-sized and can be treated as adult dancers, they should be somewhere where the rest of us don't have to worry about.
    I don't care where that is, the igloo, a different room, even a fenced off bit of the blues room. I really don't give a toss as long as I don't have to think about it.

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    Re: Children at Adult Dance Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    As a dance teacher I do have a problem with children mixing with adults in partner dance lessons.

    The problem is that adults can get their hands on children. And that has the potential to attract the wrong kind of adults. I took advice before setting the age limit for my lessons. The advice was that adults who want to get their hands on children have no interest once those children get to 14.

    Sometimes I do get parents asking if their can bring their 12 year old. I say they can come in for free but they must only do the lessons with their parents or people approved by the parents - they must not join in the general lesson. I make sure the parents know it's their responsibility to keep an eye on their child, not mine.

    Even when children get to 14 you do still need to be watchful. Some girls of 14 look stunning and are fully developed women. Grown men with a healthy interest in women might make a pass. That's a very different situation from attracting the kind of person who is interested in children. But it is the same criminal offence!
    Andy. I think your spot the money with your above comments.

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    Andy McGregor (27th-May-2011)

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Considering there were 3 dance floors and the children stayed in the same spot, why didn't you consider moving to another floor rather than compromise your enjoyment gav doesn't make sense. There was plenty of space on the floor down by the bar as I danced on it many times.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That sentiment seems a little at odds with the official statement:


    Or at least, confusing. Maybe it's worth rephrasing the official statement?

    Also, whilst I'm sure the children in question were lovely dancers, and I think it's good in general to encourage children to learn to dance, the fact remains, they're children. The rules are different for kids.
    Thankyou David, perhaps consideration should be given to changing it, bearing in mind that more children are getting involved.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    Considering there were 3 dance floors and the children stayed in the same spot, why didn't you consider moving to another floor rather than compromise your enjoyment gav doesn't make sense. There was plenty of space on the floor down by the bar as I danced on it many times.
    I suspect there's not much point continuing this, but the fact is that I wanted to dance where my partner and my friends were, where there were a lot of Lindy-hoppers and in the most popular, buzzing part of the blues room. What you seem to be saying is that I should have sacrificed all of that because you wanted children to dance by the DJ.
    I wouldn't presume to lay down the law or tell you what you should or shouldn't do, I'm just telling you how the situation made me feel and how it affected my enjoyment. If your considered response amounts to little more than 'you should go somewhere else', well fine, that's your prerogative.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    Thankyou David, perhaps consideration should be given to changing it, bearing in mind that more children are getting involved.
    If that's so, it might well be worth doing other things to make weekenders more family-friendly. Hell, it's a Pontins, they have loads of things they could do for kids.

    Possibly even worth trying out a full family-friendly weekender? Other organisers have done that, I think?

    I appreciate it's a massive can of worms, but it might also be an opportunity for those people who want to combine dancing and family holidays, or who want to get their own children involved in dance.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    If that's so, it might well be worth doing other things to make weekenders more family-friendly. Hell, it's a Pontins, they have loads of things they could do for kids.

    Possibly even worth trying out a full family-friendly weekender? Other organisers have done that, I think?

    I appreciate it's a massive can of worms, but it might also be an opportunity for those people who want to combine dancing and family holidays, or who want to get their own children involved in dance.
    Its true that pontins offers lots of other things and the children certainly did and can do other things.

    Weekenders at pontins which are organised by Ceroc are family friendly and will continue to be so on the proviso of supervision, etc. These children are the future of Ceroc and dance. My children especially will continue to go and will be at every swingers hour until such time as they don't want to be there or don't enjoy it. I think it's fair to say that if this does pose a serious issue for some people then there are alternative weekenders out there for people who want an adult only weekend.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    Weekenders at pontins which are organised by Ceroc are family friendly and will continue to be so on the proviso of supervision, etc. These children are the future of Ceroc and dance.
    Fair enough. It'd be interesting to see if Ceroc can make explicit provision for family-friendly weekenders, or possibly family-friendly sections / times at weekenders.

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    My children especially will continue to go and will be at every swingers hour until such time as they don't want to be there or don't enjoy it.
    Mmmm, don't take this the wrong way, but that comes off a bit like "one rule for us, another for the lowly punters"...

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    I think it's fair to say that if this does pose a serious issue for some people then there are alternative weekenders out there for people who want an adult only weekend.
    Indeed, and I can heartily recommend the Ardingly AT weekender in Sussex this weekend, I hear they're having a Special Guest Star DJ.

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    Re: Fair rate for Private Lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    The 2 children dancing at swingers hour were actually dancing properly, in time and had more floor etiquette than some of the other couples. They were well supervised, didn't run around, danced so close to the dj table so as not to be in any danger.
    At several times during the weekend I spotted under 18s dancing. I'm old enough that I can't easily tell where someone is on the scale between 12 and 18 (unless they're at one of of that scle) but my general reaction was one of jealousy - they were all better dancers than me.

    They also weren't the kids aged 8-12 or so (again, I have no idea) that were running in/out of the dance floor near the DJ booth during Swing Hour. I did at the time have a mild concern because I struggle enough to avoid adults when I'm dancing. My awareness, ability and concentration just aren't good enough to avoid occasional collisions with people that are the same height as me; I feel no shame in being concerned about someone 4 foot tall.


    Quote Originally Posted by lindyloo View Post
    Also how many people did you see kicking 3 ft in the air! I didn't see any!
    3 foot, not sure. 2 foot, several. Hell, one of my favourite dancers (who has a fantastic selection of big fluffy dresses, and doesn't need any of them to be a stunning dancer and utterly gorgeous even stood still) was doing 2 foot kicks while dancing with another lady...

    I have no issue with kids. I don't dance with them, because I find it hard to dance with short partners (although one of Maja's looks tall enough now, and is a superb dancer despite being still quite young), but I don't mind them dancing near me. I do have a degree of concern when they're playing/darting in & out of dancers distinct from the dancing. That did happen at the weekend.

    Ultimately, I'm not too worried though. If someone runs in front of me and gets hurt because I danced into them, it's a risk inherent to dancing in public. I do my best to avoid it, and if that's not enough, then an accident will happen. No point getting distressed about it.
    Last edited by cederic; 26th-May-2011 at 07:11 PM.

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