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Thread: Giving etiquette reminders

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    Giving etiquette reminders

    So, guys.

    Last night while dancing at my regular venue, two guys dropped me (as in, attempted to do a drop and actually dropped me, without having asked me if I was okay with dips/drops - thankfully no injuries were sustained).

    I feel I should give people who do that a bit of a lesson in etiquette. What's the best way to do it, without putting people off ever dancing with you again?

    What about other, perhaps lesser breaches of etiquette - like not cutting your nails and ending up making holes in your partner's knuckles? (This also happened to me last night.)

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    So, guys.

    Last night while dancing at my regular venue, two guys dropped me (as in, attempted to do a drop and actually dropped me, without having asked me if I was okay with dips/drops - thankfully no injuries were sustained).
    In the case of actually being dropped I might not be worried about them never dancing with me again so would be tempted to say something fairly blunt like "Don't try drops on people without having mastered the technique first." If you like them you could offer to practise with them a bit.

    If no actual harm had been done I might try a more devious route, like "Be careful, I've got a bad back." It's certainly true that I was once given a back injury by a wild dropper and I don't want another one. It often doesn't occur to guys that drops could be a problem (they have never followed, usually, and they are obsessed with carrying out the move) and I have found they respond well when they realise they might inflict real damage.

    If they are a known offender I might pre-empt them by saying, "Please don't do any drops." If they then puff out their chest and say "You'll be quite safe with me, dear," you know you've got a real problem and should determinedly resist all efforts to take you off your balance.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    In the case of actually being dropped I might not be worried about them never dancing with me again so would be tempted to say something fairly blunt like "Don't try drops on people without having mastered the technique first." If you like them you could offer to practise with them a bit.
    Perhaps I try to make excuses for people, because I often think that I get dropped or almost dropped a lot because I'm fairly thin, but tall, and people think I weigh less than I do. Perhaps it is just that they aren't competent at the drops.

    What really bothers me is people just not asking me whether I'm okay with drops, or if they've done one with me once then assuming I'm okay with doing them all the time. There are a few (very few) dancers who I don't mind doing drops with - I know to expect it with them and I feel (reasonably) safe when they do them. But the fact is that I just don't like doing drops, especially when I'm not expecting it (and there are some that I nearly pass out from headrush after doing, so people really need to know not to do them). I don't know how to communicate this to people without offending them

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    I don't know how to communicate this to people without offending them
    "Just to let you know, I won't be doing any drops, thank U. obviously that will be fine with U becasue u are such a fine dancer with a great vocabulary, U don't need drops to make our dance special. "

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Can I ask a question. When they are putting you in a drop, did you have the ability to put your arm across or around their shoulders to ensure that you have some thing secure to hold onto.

    I have done drops where girls have done a dieing swann routine and thrown themselves into a drop without ever getting a secure hold on them. I have always retorted that they have taken there life in their hands but they seem to have faith in moi.

    I am not trying to insinuate that you have done this but if they have dropped you and you have been unable to get a secure arm hold I would tell them not to do any drops.

    I would never try to do a ball room drop purely because I don't feel I have the physical strength to lift them up.

    Any drops I do I always ensure that I have a secure hold on my partner and I have a wind foot stance to ensure I have a solid basis.

    Good luck

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Do drops get taught in class, and do they give an alternative version when they do so, and do they remind the leads to ask the followers before they execute the drop in freestyle? If they do the former, but neither of the latter, have a word with the teacher and get them to do so. The guys may need reminding that it's polite to ask.

    Do you want to do drops with anyone at all? Do you want to do them with those you say you feel relatively safe with? If you want to cut them out altogether, then just say to guys who ask you to dance that you don't do drops. You don't have to give a reason, but if they ask say you don't feel comfortable with them. Of course if they've seen you doing drops with someone you trust earlier in the evening, then that does seem a bit contradictory, in which case you could let it be known that you only do drops with guys you've had a chance to practice with.

    If you've not done a dips and drops workshop you could try one, as it might give you techniques to sabotage the drops. I've had a couple of guys try to put me into drops, and fail it really embarrases them

    And if all else fails, don't worry about giving offence. If the guy is so arrogant that he wants to throw you into a move you don't like and you've let him know that, do you really want to be dancing with him?

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    I don't wish to make light of what can be a serious matter. But I'm reminded of an amusing event many years ago.

    I attended a Bognor weekend and was persuaded to go by my friends Kevin and Carol. Carol particularly wanted me there because she wanted to attend an advanced drops and seducers class hosted by Peter Phillips (brilliant drops teacher). And if I wasn't there she would have to attend with John who is a dear friend to us, but he is not great at judging his centre of balance and he is very keen on doing drops.

    I had spent the whole weekend walking to classes in my trainers and changing into my dance shoes on arrival. For some reason unknown to me I decided to wear my shoes to the drops class, managed to find an iced puddle and managed to hit my head on the path. I may even have blacked out. Of course it was necessary for my to go and be checked out at hospital. But by the time I got back the class was almost over and Carol had had to do it with John. And I got a bit of an earful.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    But the fact is that I just don't like doing drops, especially when I'm not expecting it
    I understand that it is polite to ask someone if they are comfortable with drops. Though I must confess I don't. But in my defence I would never try a drop when dancing with someone for the first time (though I might attempt the odd seducer ),. And only do drops with people that I know are comfortable with them and know the signals.

    But I am curious about "not expecting" the drop. Aren't there supposed to be signals?

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    I think it's up to the organisers to remind people not to do drops without checking with their partner first.

    Some guys seem to take the attitude "I'll do drops without asking and send flowers to the hospital if it goes wrong". They are very apologetic if it all goes wrong when they shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.

    My advice. Say "No thank you". The next time they ask for a dance. If they ask you why, simply tell them the truth.

    And it never hurts to say 'no drops please' when you're asked to dance. Who cares if you end up with the nickname "No Drops Meggie" - that really does get the message across and you aren't injured.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    Last night while dancing at my regular venue, two guys dropped me (as in, attempted to do a drop and actually dropped me, without having asked me if I was okay with dips/drops - thankfully no injuries were sustained).
    Argh. Why do people still do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    I feel I should give people who do that a bit of a lesson in etiquette. What's the best way to do it, without putting people off ever dancing with you again?
    Firstly, you should always be given the option to refuse an entry to a drop. Sometimes you may not be given such an option, but that's because the leader doing it, is doing it wrong. (If you're a good enough follower, you can at that point hijack the lead and really refuse the drop - no matter what. CeeCee - you probably won't know her but others will - is very good at this)

    Secondly, the best way to do it is never to dance with that person again. Because they're dangerous. There are three valid reasons to refuse a dance in MJ - and one of those is if they may hurt you. (the other two are if they smell or if they're pervs )

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    What about other, perhaps lesser breaches of etiquette - like not cutting your nails and ending up making holes in your partner's knuckles? (This also happened to me last night.)
    Both come under "they may hurt you" rule.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Who cares if you end up with the nickname "No Drops Meggie" - that really does get the message across and you aren't injured.
    Men don't give woman nicknames, women do that to men.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Men don't give woman nicknames, women do that to men.
    .. until you get so well known the nickname is no longer needed. Then you seem to revert to your full name - sometimes with a facial expression

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Wow, thanks for all the replies

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Can I ask a question. When they are putting you in a drop, did you have the ability to put your arm across or around their shoulders to ensure that you have some thing secure to hold onto.

    I have done drops where girls have done a dieing swann routine and thrown themselves into a drop without ever getting a secure hold on them. I have always retorted that they have taken there life in their hands but they seem to have faith in moi.

    I am not trying to insinuate that you have done this but if they have dropped you and you have been unable to get a secure arm hold I would tell them not to do any drops.
    Sometimes I do get the chance to grab onto them, sometimes I don't. I occasionally do the 'dying swan' thing with one guy only, and I usually take full responsibility for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Do drops get taught in class, and do they give an alternative version when they do so, and do they remind the leads to ask the followers before they execute the drop in freestyle? If they do the former, but neither of the latter, have a word with the teacher and get them to do so. The guys may need reminding that it's polite to ask.

    If you've not done a dips and drops workshop you could try one, as it might give you techniques to sabotage the drops. I've had a couple of guys try to put me into drops, and fail it really embarrases them
    Drops don't get taught, and dips only occasionally. I've never witnessed a warning about asking ladies before doing them. I have done a dips and drops (or drips and dops as I originally typed) class but there were no sabotage tips...maybe I should ask some of the more experienced followers to teach me some.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    But I am curious about "not expecting" the drop. Aren't there supposed to be signals?
    Probably, but either they're not giving them or I'm not receiving them. I've never learnt anything about signals, even in the one dips/drops class I did, except what my boyfriend taught me for some of the drops he does with me. Unfortunately these don't tend to be the same ones other people do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    And it never hurts to say 'no drops please' when you're asked to dance. Who cares if you end up with the nickname "No Drops Meggie" - that really does get the message across and you aren't injured.
    Noooooo anything but Meggie. I really hate having my name shortened

    [QUOTE=Andy McGregor;588909]I think it's up to the organisers to remind people not to do drops without checking with their partner first. [/QUOTE

    Yes...I think I will ask the organiser to get some etiquette reminders across. Perhaps by getting teachers to make announcements, perhaps by putting up posters.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    There are three valid reasons to refuse a dance in MJ - and one of those is if they may hurt you. (the other two are if they smell or if they're pervs )
    Haha, I think sometimes we need reminders about all of these things actually. It might just be my insecurity but I often feel that the only recognised valid reason to refuse a dance is because you're better than the person who is asking.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    It might just be my insecurity but I often feel that the only recognised valid reason to refuse a dance is because you're better than the person who is asking.


    If people did that, I'd never have learnt to dance!

    Actually, I think it's the other way round - refuse a dance if you feel that the person asking is better than you. But then I'm quite easily intimidated. I'd never refuse someone on the ground that I thought I was better than them.

    I remember a guy whom I danced with on regular class nights for months on end, and he seemed hopeless, but he obviously enjoyed it. Then he disappeared for 6 months or so, and I ran into him again at a freestyle. I don't know what he'd been up to in the intervening time, but And now he usually asks me when he sees me.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    hijack the lead and really refuse the drop
    Never ever be shy about doing this. Rule one for followers: don't get hurt. Embarrassing your leader is infinitely preferable (even if it's me).

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    I don't know if women are the same, but men take it really badly if you refuse for a valid reason. One particular regular at Cheshunt, who used to ask me to dance every time I saw him, was once eating a packet of cheese and onion crisps, screwed up the empty packet on the table next to him (first irritation) then held his hand out to me to ask for a dance. I wasn't rude to him, but I asked that he washed his hands before I would dance with him as I didn't want my hands and clothes to stink of Cheese and onion crisps...a reasonable request, I thought. Guess what? He's blanked me ever since and that was about three years ago. Also, he didn't even wash his hands after I asked him to do so, he just shrugged his shoulders and went and asked some other more charitable lady instead.

    I would say that if you kindly requested that these guy's didn't do drops on you, they just wouldn't ask you anymore. That's not necessarily a bad thing, because if they're not prepared to adapt their style for you then they ain't worth dancing with anyway...then you can give them a nick name.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    It might just be my insecurity but I often feel that the only recognised valid reason to refuse a dance is because you're better than the person who is asking.
    Actually, to me that's the only invalid reason.

    I may refuse because I'm tired, because I need a wee, because I don't like the music, because you're too tall (!), or other reasons. I may even refuse if I don't like you

    But I won't refuse anyone based on their ability - unless they're going to hurt me (which is almost impossible for a follower to do to a competent leader anyway)

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    But I won't refuse anyone based on their ability - unless they're going to hurt me (which is almost impossible for a follower to do to a competent leader anyway)
    Don't be so sure! There's this one dip where the leader puts his arms under the follower's armpits and drops her down backwards. I have a tendancy to grab onto the leader's hands for security (because I don't like dips and drops!) which apparently hurts the leader's wrists (or at least it does when the leader is my boyfriend. I've never hurt anyone else doing this).

    What I don't understand is why he keeps leading me into this one when he knows I hurt him!!!

    I thought it was women who were meant to be impossible to understand.

    (Last night he also decided to lead me into the one where I nearly pass out, and I think I did pass out for a brief moment, because apparently I slumped on him rather when he pulled me back up.)




    Anyway, the basic message I'm getting here is to be more assertive about it. I shall go and try to put this into practice tonight.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by meghann View Post
    Probably, but either they're not giving them or I'm not receiving them. I've never learnt anything about signals
    Maybe one of our powers that be on here can confirm. But I think drops were stopped in Ceroc for safety reasons as classes were becoming too crowded. But for years drops and jumps were taught. Moves like the ballroom drop, the nose bleed, the ballroom jump and even half tumbles. Have they all been stopped? In classes I mean.

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    Re: Giving etiquette reminders

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    Maybe one of our powers that be on here can confirm. But I think drops were stopped in Ceroc for safety reasons as classes were becoming too crowded. But for years drops and jumps were taught. Moves like the ballroom drop, the nose bleed, the ballroom jump and even half tumbles. Have they all been stopped? In classes I mean.
    This isn't a Ceroc franchise, though

    Well, I totally failed at being assertive last night (no surprises there har har), but thankfully only competent people dipped and dropped me.

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