Fair rate for Private Lessons

[Gus]

OK, to start, statement of interest: I'm looking to start teaching private lessons and I was interested in what was considered a 'fair' rate.

I'd like to stay away from my usual rant about 'unqualified teachers charging extortionate rates and eating live babies while forcing students to dance to Eurovision classics' ... so lets start with the basic proposition:

The teacher is 'competent', but not in the S&N, N&N league
Students are competent intermediates
Rate is for teaching only, not for venue or add-ons like video etc

So ... what is a reasonable hourly rate, thoughts? How could a teacher improve the value given?

[Gav]

Well, the booklet for Southport said £50/hour . and considering that the venue was free (in that it was already there and available - there's no way they could build that into their costs) I thought that was extortionate.
We were actually looking for private lessons this weekend, but for £50/hour and given that we couldn't see any teachers in the line-up that we especially wanted to use. It didn't help that their 'star-turn' was a harmonica player!

[Double Trouble]

I clicked on £25 without realising Gav had voted, honest!

I would say £25 is about right, I would pay that for an hour, but any more and I would be put off.

[David Bailey]

Well, the booklet for Southport said £50/hour . and considering that the venue was free (in that it was already there and available - there's no way they could build that into their costs) I thought that was extortionate.

I agree. Also, without being bitchy about it, the average Ceroc teacher is maybe not very experienced at teaching privates, and may not have a good grounding in theory either.

Mind you, it's a captive market.

It didn't help that their 'star-turn' was a harmonica player!

Harmonicas are cool

[Gav]

Harmonicas are cool

Dead man walking, we got a dead man walking here

[jivecat]

AT privates have gone up from around £20 to £35 in the time I've taken them and this is about the limit of what I'll pay. Even then, they're just an occasional treat.

However, there are lots of people in the dance world with far more disposable cash than me who are clearly prepared to pay more and more often. But I can't and won't.

As a basic level of professional care I'd expect
*Full attention for the hour.
*Supportive encouragement
*Honest appraisal (in line with the above) and diagnostics but with opportunities for me to say what I think I need/want to learn.
*A balanced lesson covering a range of skills, not solely devoted to one aspect of the dance or the teacher's own pet peeves.
*Pointers to specific practice areas to work on after the lesson.
*The teacher should have good knowledge of dance technique and how to improve or modify it.
*Good communication from the teacher

If I had a series of lessons with the same teacher I'd also expect
*Continuing review of progress, with core activities to test whether I'd learned and retained previous stuff. Visible demonstrations of whether I'd mastered a particular issue or not
*Structured practice with the teacher of areas taught in previous lessons


Having said all that, I think now that if I had a private lesson either in MJ or AT (and I would consider taking a private lesson in MJ now after not being interested for years) it would be to work on things very specific to me, that I'd pinpointed as something I wanted to improve that I couldn't learn easily from just dancing freestyle. I'd have to be very picky about the teacher having the right sort of personal style - years ago it wouldn't have mattered to me.

[Gav]

Having said all that, I think now that if I had a private lesson either in MJ or AT it would be to work on things very specific to me, that I'd pinpointed as something I wanted to improve that I couldn't learn easily from just dancing freestyle. I'd have to be very picky about the teacher having the right sort of personal style - years ago it wouldn't have mattered to me.

I spoke to a dance teacher whom I do respect recently and they told me that the most important thing to do when considering private lessons, is to have an idea of what you want to achieve beforehand; and preferably, let the teacher know what that is in advance.

[fletch]

It didn't help that their 'star-turn' was a harmonica player!

So Gav out off all the talent on the floor you see the harmonica play as the star turn? funny how we see things differently!

for me the stars were young Shannon and James who won entrery to the London champs with the largest cheer from the audence ever, they must have liked childern on the dance floor

or Spinney Jamie the Tazmaninan devil of the dance floor, no matter how many times I watch him spinn I gobsmacked

perhaps you might like to surgest a star turn for next scorch? what about flying in someone from the USA to insult the punters, not turn up for there private lessons and tell the audence there to good to stay in a dump like pontins, that might inspire people?

[David Bailey]

So Gav out off all the talent on the floor you see the harmonica play as the star turn?

Ceroc obviously did, that's why he was headlined and featured on the front cover - possibly that's what Gav was referring to?

they must have liked childern on the dance floor

Cor, we haven't had a good old "kids attending weekenders" barney for ages...

perhaps you might like to surgest a star turn for next scorch? what about flying in someone from the USA to insult the punters, not turn up for there private lessons and tell the audence there to good to stay in a dump like pontins, that might inspire people?

Breaaaaaathe...

[philsmove]

So is that per person or for a couple ( some AT Gods quote per person and are reluctant to teach one person,

I have seen AT teachers spend most of an hour just "watching and assessing"

For MJ and assuming its a full hour, of full on teaching

A beginner wanting a bit of help £20- £30

An intermediate wanting some help getting rid of some bad habits £30-£50

but an experience couple wantin to enter competitions £50-£85
plus expenses


eg travel if they are coming to me and room hire if a free room is not available

[Andy McGregor]

I charge £30 an hour for privates. But I mostly try to discourage people from taking private lessons in MJ. We do a social dance which is learnt in a social setting. Private lessons miss the point. If you want to learn more intensively I think you'd be better off with a workshop.

Most of the private lessons I teach are people wanting to learn for a special occasion. Once in a while I do a private lesson to fix a bad habit.

The learning of MJ in a social setting is a significant part of the fun of MJ. Private lessons take that fun out of the learning process. Although I do try generate fun in my private lessons.

[Gus]

An interesting dimension for me is what is the minimum price an instructor willing to teach for. The instructors I know range from the student/cash strapped end of the spectrum with others who are IT Contractors/time poor. If you are pulling in £50+/hr on your contract you may be reluctant to spend an hours prep plus an hour teaching for a paltry £40. On the other hand a student would see £20 as a real incentive. May influence the supply side of the equation.

[David Bailey]

So is that per person or for a couple ( some AT Gods quote per person and are reluctant to teach one person,

All the prices I have paid or been paid have been per hour. It seems silly to do anything else.

I have seen AT teachers spend most of an hour just "watching and assessing"

They're snoozing

The best value I've encountered in the past couple of years was £50 for an hour with Ricardo Oria. The man is a god; he made two simple suggestions and they both massively improved my dancing.

[jivecat]

I have seen AT teachers spend most of an hour just "watching and assessing"

What a right load of snake oil. I'd want my money back.

A beginner wanting a bit of help £20- £30

An intermediate wanting some help getting rid of some bad habits £30-£50

but an experience couple wantin to enter competitions £50-£85
plus expenses

Doesn't seem unreasonable to me. The higher the level of skill required and offered the more you pay. You'd want the goods delivered for £85 though. Would that include a guarantee?

[Lynn]

Well, the booklet for Southport said £50/hour . and considering that the venue was free (in that it was already there and available - there's no way they could build that into their costs) I thought that was extortionate.
We were actually looking for private lessons this weekend, but for £50/hour and given that we couldn't see any teachers in the line-up that we especially wanted to use.

Again its the supply and demand thing and people will pay that rate. You're away on a weekender, have time to work on things you learn, are relaxed and enjoying your dancing, access to teachers you otherwise would have to travel to have a private with - all those things mean that it might be worth paying a bit more than you usually would.

My dance partner had a private lesson this weekend, giving him useful feedback and teaching things that he wouldn't have got in a larger class. It was really helpful and for us it was worth it.

Otherwise, I'd say anywhere between £25-£40 is an acceptable rate for 'regular' private lessons, depending on the experience and expertise of the teacher.

[David Bailey]

Again its the supply and demand thing and people will pay that rate. You're away on a weekender, have time to work on things you learn, are relaxed and enjoying your dancing, access to teachers you otherwise would have to travel to have a private with - all those things mean that it might be worth paying a bit more than you usually would.

Yeah, but all that said, £50 / hour - under most circumstances and with most Ceroc teachers - is taking the mickey, it really is. If only because your standard Ceroc teacher is not trained (or necessarily experienced) at giving private tuition.

[Gus]

Yeah, but all that said, £50 / hour - under most circumstances and with most Ceroc teachers - is taking the mickey, it really is. If only because your standard Ceroc teacher is not trained (or necessarily experienced) at giving private tuition.

I wouldn't confuse the rates charged at weekenders with the rates charged by CTA instructors on their own patch. As a second point, courting controversy, I would tend to agree with you that a fair proportion are probably not well trained/experienced at teaching one-on-one .... they may not have the experience in analysis, dance form and theory and know teaching methods (but then again have YOU Mr DB? ).

Having said that, there are some CTA who DO have an impeccable dance background or whom are simply talented and able to teach one-on-one impeccably. Its ultimately down to what the student is after and whether the teacher can help in that aspect.

I'd like to hear more on this thread about techniques or teachers who represent excellence in coaching. Lets collectively improve the standard of teachers who want to improve and shame the shysters out of the business.

[David Bailey]

.... they may not have the experience in analysis, dance form and theory and know teaching methods (but then again have YOU Mr DB? ).

I reckon I've got a damn sight more experience in education theory and practice than almost anyone teaching Modern Jive. If only because it's part of my real job.

Plus, I'd be taking the mickey (at the moment) by charging £50 / hour. Maybe in a few years' time....

[philsmove]

Yeah, but all that said, £50 / hour - under most circumstances and with most Ceroc teachers - is taking the mickey, it really is. If only because your standard Ceroc teacher is not trained (or necessarily experienced) at giving private tuition.

May be I am just lucky, in my part of the world, the teachers all very experienced and very good. I have not paid for any private lessons, but I often get helped after the class, the help is allways very good and very professional. I dont know how much they would charge, but I would expect to pay similar to what I charge for photography and that is more than £50 per hour

PS I do have a paper qualification but basically I charge for knowledge and experience, not my paper qualification

[David Bailey]

OK, to start, statement of interest: I'm looking to start teaching private lessons and I was interested in what was considered a 'fair' rate.

I'd like to stay away from my usual rant about 'unqualified teachers charging extortionate rates and eating live babies while forcing students to dance to Eurovision classics' ... so lets start with the basic proposition:

The teacher is 'competent', but not in the S&N, N&N league
Students are competent intermediates
Rate is for teaching only, not for venue or add-ons like video etc

So ... what is a reasonable hourly rate, thoughts?

How long is a piece of string?

I can only really talk about the AT world, but I think it's a reasonable comparison.

The best value I've found was an astonishingly-low £20 per hour - from someone I respected highly. Unfortunately he was never available... The most expensive I've found was £65ph (including room hire).

So I'd guess somewhere between those two is reasonable, under your criteria - say, £40 per hour plus room hire costs.

How could a teacher improve the value given?

For my privates, I try to offer value by:
- Planning the lesson's topics in advance so we don't waste time deciding what's needed
- Writing up notes for each session and sending them to the students
- (If they agree) Taking videos of them at the start and end of the session, and providing those; either online or on a memory stick (memory sticks are cheap)

Feel free to ask me about my rates