View Poll Results: How important is a Venue's layout?

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  • I'm a woman and it's VERY important

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Thread: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

  1. #1
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    I've realised, that for me, one of the most important elements of an good evening, it the venue's layout.

    A venue can have the best dancers, great music, lighting and a good floor but if the layout is wrong, then then IMO the atmosphere will always be compromised!

    But speaking to several people, it would appear this more important to women, than men?

    Is that the case?
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    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    I'd say it's fairly important to me, mostly from a practical view of getting dances. I need to be able to be sitting or standing near the edge of the dancefloor. If all the sitting/standing space is seperated from the dancefloor (by a balustrade or something) then I find it harder to get asked to dance. Guys thing you're sat out and leave you too it.

    Although it is also quite nice to have an area that is seperate, so that if you're knackered, you can escape for a bit!

    What other aspects are important? Is this the kind of thing that you mean (since my perception if that you'd probably struggle for dances less than I would!)?

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I've realised, that for me, one of the most important elements of an good evening, it the venue's layout.

    A venue can have the best dancers, great music, lighting and a good floor but if the layout is wrong, then then IMO the atmosphere will always be compromised!

    But speaking to several people, it would appear this more important to women, than men?

    Is that the case?
    Did The Forum last night spark this thread ?
    x

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Ive only ever noticed this in blues rooms.

    Its quite obvious to me when its wrong because you dont get the right feel or desire to dance blues. I cant really put my finger on what it is though.

  5. #5
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    But speaking to several people, it would appear this more important to women, than men?
    I'd tend to agree since most often it's the women standing out and needing to ask the men and the biggest issue with layout from a dancing perspective is how to get back on the floor if you've gone off it. I remember when I started Ceroc and I noticed a difference between Cambridge and Peterborough

    Cambridge - row of chairs on edge of dancefloor where people wishing to dance would tend to sit, made identifying those wanting to dance and those resting/taking a break easy to do.

    Peterborough - floor surrounded by round tables which made it much more daunting to approach people sat at those tables.

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    Papa Smurf
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Extreme options. I can't say it doesn't bother me at all, because it does a little bit - so I had to go for VERY. This poll was written by a woman wasn't it ? The sort of woman you wouldnt want to mess with

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    To me “atmosphere” is very important. Lay out, along with other elements such as music, lighting and gender balance are a vital parts of the formula that creates of the atmosphere. The way, for example, the tables and chairs are positioned can have a big effect on the ebb and flow of the floor
    I think women, are much better than men, at understanding the importance of lay out, but none the less, us men will appreciate the effort that has been made, even if we cannot identify what it is that is creating the magic

    Men seem better at things like sounds systems, Women seem better at tables, chairs and candles

    Personally, I am not a great fan of two room events but if there is two rooms, I have no objection to them being well separated, as it stops people continually flitting between the two, something I personally dislike. But I accept I am in a minority or is this also a man /women thing

    So in summary, layout is important to us men but, we may not realise it

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    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    I think the venue layout is often a compromise caused by the physical size of the venue and/or dancefloor.

    So if organisers want to maximise the size of the dancefloor they may squeeze lots of tables round the edges so that people have somewhere to put their drinks. (Which is good if the alternative is spilt drinks messing up the dancefloor.)

    But if you're sitting at a table some way from the dancefloor itself then I think, as Twirly says, you're less likely to be asked, especially if there are a lot of folk standing at the edge of the dancefloor as well.

    However I'm not sure I'd always relate it to atmosphere. For example both Breeze and Southport seem to have a good atmosphere for daytime dancing in their respective pub areas. But I much, much prefer Southport because there's simply more space.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    I think a good evening is mixture of all the right ingredients. Good music, good floors, friendly people, guys you want to dance with and the right hall/venue. When any of the elements are missing then it impacts on how I perceive the evening.

    If you are referring to the Forum, I think this venue is particularly female unfriendly. You have to feel like a stalker/hunter to get a dance and if your not in the right frame of mind then it can make you feel quite negative. I was only there yesterday until 9 0’Clock last night and I think I got the best out of the venue before it got too crowded

    As for Breeze versus Southport - I find the layout at Southport conducive to getting a dance

    Lory - Can you add the option of sometimes important to me

  10. #10
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Oooh, good question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I've realised, that for me, one of the most important elements of an good evening, it the venue's layout.
    Yes, it's very important.

    Here's an example: if you look at 2-room venues, the ones which really work well have the rooms physically close together, to allow mixing between rooms. For example, Berko - by comparison, the Blues Room at Chesham is generally less successful, despite having the same crowd and the same DJs, simply because dancers have to go outside to get to the other room, and most of them simply don't bother.

    Proximity is not the only factor of course - Chiswick Town Hall also has, in theory, the ideal layout, but Chiswick has been let down historically by the poor quality of the floors. But it shows that layout is very important.

    Similarly, look at places like Southport - 3 rooms, very very easy to go from one to the other, hence lots of mingling and mixing and good vibes. But when they (Jive Addiction I think?) set up a marquee outside for WCS etc., almost no-one used it - because people didn't want to make the effort to go outside.

    Logistics matter - people are very lazy, and don't tend to move from one area to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    But speaking to several people, it would appear this more important to women, than men?
    Maybe I'm a woman. I'll double-check next time I go to the loo, OK?
    Last edited by David Bailey; 28th-February-2011 at 02:57 PM.

  11. #11
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    And away from the multi-room example, layout within a single room is also important.

    In Tango, there are venues which are renowned for their unfriendliness. A lot of the time, those venues are where it's extremely difficult to "mingle" - basically, seats or tables scattered around the outside of a room, facing in towards the floor. It's very difficult to get dances from people you don't know.

    Conversely, there are venues which are friendly - these venues often are places where, for example, the tables are all arranged on one side of the room, along with the bar, and mingling is very much easier.

    Of course, it's chicken-and-egg; the layout can be changed by people, and some organisers clearly want to create specific atmospheres. So "friendly" venues are often run by "friendly" organisers and attract "friendly" people anyway.

    But again, a lot of it is down to "logistics".

    (P.S. Obviously, "friendly" is relative, and in Tango terms - basically you get refused with a smile rather than with a drop-dead look )

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    If you are referring to the Forum, I think this venue is particularly female unfriendly. You have to feel like a stalker/hunter to get a dance
    Cor, I think maybe I should go back there ....

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    ... round tables which made it much more daunting to approach people sat at those tables.
    Round tables are bad, grouped round tables are worse.

    Venue layout can make huge difference.

    Parkside clup in Luton was grotty, replaced by the Riverside which is very nice. Parkside had better beginner retention rate than Riverside.

    Riverside has three areas for sitting at round tables, and nowhere to stand. Parkside had insufficient seating, and all seated were within a few feet of dancefloor.

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    I prefer a room with round tables around the dance floor - the worst thing is to get stuck on a table where you have to practically climb over people to get to the dance floor.

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    You have to feel like a stalker/hunter to get a dance
    Which for the Essex Cougars is quite a natural thing to do......isn't it?

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I've realised, that for me, one of the most important elements of an good evening, it the venue's layout.

    A venue can have the best dancers, great music, lighting and a good floor but if the layout is wrong, then then IMO the atmosphere will always be compromised!

    But speaking to several people, it would appear this more important to women, than men?

    Is that the case?
    Well, I guess you are referring to the Forum. And it is slightly different to the usual town hall, school hall type venue (more muggle-club like), which impacts women and men. For me, I find the tactic is to get on the floor and then stay on - getting your next dance from the herd as they meander off the floor - either via a 'mutual'[1] or a more direct approach.

    Once you're off, even for a man it is not as easy as a normal venue to get a dance, especially with the upper area where I spoke with you crammed with hotties/Westies......slightly cliquey. And the Forum does attract dancers from far and wide - eg. Peterborough way plus deepest London - so you get quite a few new faces.......which is refreshing.

    Thing is, with the Forum, when you're on the floor, with a great tune and partner - it is terrific and can provide an experience which exceeds yer average run-of-the-mill hall-all-the-dancers-are-my-mates type venue.



    [1] Eyes meet......eyebrows raise - and you know it is going to happen.....
    Last edited by JiveLad; 28th-February-2011 at 05:56 PM.

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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    The nicest lay out I seen was at the City & Port Of Bristol Social & Sports Club
    The decor was straight out of a set from Top of Pops in the 60s
    At one end were two big seating areas, overlooking the dance floor, with lots of space between the tables
    Down each side, of the sprung dance floor, was a wide carpet with comfortable fixed benches against the wall
    At the other end a spacious bar area
    It was very popular, unfortunaly too popular, it was a small venue and I think failed, in part, due overcrowding

  18. #18
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    I need to be able to be sitting or standing near the edge of the dancefloor. If all the sitting/standing space is seperated from the dancefloor (by a balustrade or something) then I find it harder to get asked to dance. Guys thing you're sat out and leave you too it.


    Quote Originally Posted by marcusj View Post
    Did The Forum last night spark this thread ?
    x
    Well yes but I wanted a more general discussion.
    Plus I like Pat and Gena and know they work very hard to try and make it a friendly venue.
    But unfortunately, I can't see how one could improve The Forum's layout, it's just as Maxine said, particularly female unfriendly

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Cambridge - row of chairs on edge of dancefloor where people wishing to dance would tend to sit, made identifying those wanting to dance and those resting/taking a break easy to do.
    Perfect!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Extreme options. I can't say it doesn't bother me at all, because it does a little bit - so I had to go for VERY. This poll was written by a woman wasn't it ? The sort of woman you wouldnt want to mess with



    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    You have to feel like a stalker/hunter to get a dance and if your not in the right frame of mind then it can make you feel quite negative. I was only there yesterday until 9 0’Clock last night and I think I got the best out of the venue before it got too crowded [/FONT]
    I agree about the frame of mind but I was in a good mood last night, a 'great' mood in fact. I could have quite happily sat/stood out and watched, 'if' there was somewhere you could.
    The choices are, sit at the sides, amongst a pile of coats, where you can't really see anything and feel totally out of it.
    Stand by one of the pilars and feel 'in the way'
    Stand by the bar and feel in the way
    Lean over the ballastrad and watch people dancing on the dance-floor below, which is probably the best option but its not exactly sociable and I do feel somewhat 'stalkerish'
    Or stand down on the edge of the dance-floor - definite saddo stalker territory!


    Lory - Can you add the option of sometimes important to me
    NO - Don't mess with me, there's to be no 'fence sitting' on MY poll!


    The perfect set up is probably a row of chairs, facing the dance-floor with gaps between, with some tables and chairs behind.
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  19. #19
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    [1] Eyes meet......eyebrows raise - and you know it is going to happen.....
    Blimey, I'm avoiding eye contact with you from now on. Not to mention keeping strict control of my eyebrows.

  20. #20
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    Re: How important is a venue's 'layout'?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Well yes but I wanted a more general discussion.
    We can have both

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    But unfortunately, I can't see how one could improve The Forum's layout, it's just as Maxine said, particularly female unfriendly
    I dunno why it's "female-unfriendly" - surely that was simply because there were more women than men? Or was it exacerbated by the layout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    I agree about the frame of mind but I was in a good mood last night, a 'great' mood in fact. I could have quite happily sat/stood out and watched, 'if' there was somewhere you could.
    The choices are, sit at the sides, amongst a pile of coats, where you can't really see anything and feel totally out of it.
    Stand by one of the pilars and feel 'in the way'
    Stand by the bar and feel in the way
    Lean over the ballastrad and watch people dancing on the dance-floor below, which is probably the best option but its not exactly sociable and I do feel somewhat 'stalkerish'
    Or stand down on the edge of the dance-floor - definite saddo stalker territory!
    I've only been to the Forum a couple of times, but I suspect this layout is quite standard for a lot of club-type venues; as I recall the Hippodrome had layout issues also when Jive Nation ran their nights there.

    Clubs are, ironically, not designed for dancing in. They're designed for lots of sitting-and-drinking and occasional dancing if you have to. In the same way that cinemas are food-selling businesses which show films as an unavoidable overhead, clubs are drink-selling businesses which play music and allow dancing as an unavoidable overhead.

    Cor, that's almost profound...

    Anyway, the Forum's a great venue, I enjoyed dancing there, but I agree that the layout is what it is - there's nothing much you can do to fix it. As it is, I believe Pat and Gina and the crew spend a lot of time and effort getting the floor danceable-on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    The perfect set up is probably a row of chairs, facing the dance-floor with gaps between, with some tables and chairs behind.
    Actually, I'd put the tables in the front and chairs behind. That way, people sitting on the chairs (waiting for a dance) can more easily spot other people who are not dancing. If the chairs are in front I suspect you'll encounter too much Saddo Stalker syndrome.

    That said, it may depends what proportion are dancing vs. sitting. So maybe a mix of tables / chairs is better?

    Ooh, I wonder if we can persuade Ian to get some tables out in the Blues Room...

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