Building on my dance ability

[rtwwpad]

Hi All,

just thinking about my dancing. I really enjoy Ceroc/MJ. I started WCS but injury stopped my progress. I am now looking to get back to improving my dance skills, moving my body more. I am wondering what to do.

I am thinking Line Dancing, Ceroc, WCS. One class of each in the week.

Anyone want to chip in with ideas? Should I change to just one style. Note I can only do two evenings a week. The Line dancing is in the day and I should be able to make it.

Phil

[David Bailey]

Hi All,

just thinking about my dancing. I really enjoy Ceroc/MJ. I started WCS but injury stopped my progress. I am now looking to get back to improving my dance skills, moving my body more. I am wondering what to do.

I am thinking Line Dancing, Ceroc, WCS. One class of each in the week.

Anyone want to chip in with ideas? Should I change to just one style. Note I can only do two evenings a week. The Line dancing is in the day and I should be able to make it.

Phil

Blimey, how long is a piece of string?

Firstly, Line Dancing will - I believe - teach you choreography, it'll teach you footwork, and I'm sure it'll be great fun. But it won't do much if anything to improve your partner dancing skills, for the obvious reason that it's not partner dancing

Otherwise, it all depends on what you mean by "improving your dancing" - it's like saying "I want to improve my education", really, you need to be much more specific about what you want to work on, and where you're trying to get to.

If you're trying to improve your Modern Jive, for example, then it may make sense to focus your learning on Modern Jive classes. On the other hand (as in the "experienced WCS" thread), if you're at the point where you're bored by your MJ classes, you may find you get more challenged by learning doing another dance style; and you may then find you can incorporate technique from that style into MJ.

My general feeling about learning to dance is that those who adopt a blended learning approach tend to be the ones who progress fastest. By "blended learning", I mean using a mix of:
- Group classes
- Private classes
- Solo practice
- Partner practice

(The exact proportions for the mix varies, but I think all of these are useful to some degree)

[robd]

Firstly, Line Dancing will - I believe - teach you choreography, it'll teach you footwork, and I'm sure it'll be great fun. But it won't do much if anything to improve your partner dancing skills, for the obvious reason that it's not partner dancing

Just because it isn't a partnered dance doesn't mean that the skills attained therein cannot be of benefit to other partnered dances. The same could be said of ballet.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Just because it isn't a partnered dance doesn't mean that the skills attained therein cannot be of benefit to other partnered dances. The same could be said of ballet.

Line dance is great for partner dancing. Yes it might not teach you how to lead patterens, but it will teach you musicality, footwork variations, styling and help with confidance.

Would recommend it to everyone

[jive-vee]

Just because it isn't a partnered dance doesn't mean that the skills attained therein cannot be of benefit to other partnered dances. The same could be said of ballet.

Most wcs musicality workshops I've attended recommend some form of solo dance classes as a way to improve. If that's what you're going for then line dancing, ballet, street dance, jazz etc would definitely help. It makes sense to me, after all if you know a variety of different ways move "your" body then it can only help to make you a better dancer and to dance "within the moves and patterns etc".

I'd love to go to line-dance classes but they don't have any where I live. I did recently do a short adult ballet class and techniques from that can definitely be applied to partner dancing.

I'd also recommend a private dance lesson or two (in whatever partner style dance it is that you're looking to improve in) as much more information can be delievered in a one-on-one session.

[philsmove]

MJ is a mish mash of so many other styles, that learning another style should improve your dance. Rather than choosing a particular style I would look for really good teachers. If there is a world class line dance teacher, in your area, learn Line dancing. If Amir teaches in your area, learn Tango

[Gerry]

In my eleven years of doing MJ / Ceroc, I have found that the dancers that progress the most quickly usually have done some other style of dancing whether that is Ballroom / Latin / Salsa / Lindy, ie any dance style that incorporates Musicality, Frame etc right from the start.

I know there are exceptions.

In WCS, the girls that have done Line dancing usually progress so much quicker, especially when the teacher starts talking about different footwork patterns, body isolations etc. The musicality part seems to be second nature to line dancers as they have to dance to a peice of music on their own.

I once saw four X world line dance champions dancing to a track, they all moved in the same direction on the 1, then they seemed to freestyle the next, then on 8 and the next 1 they are back to moving in the same direction, it really showed that they were all hearing the music but interpretting it differently within a specific framework. It was great to watch

[jim]

Personally I think there's two basic types of partner dance and that's open-hold or close-hold.

I think it's worth learning both. So, Ballroom, Tango, Blues, kzumba, lambarda, bachata would clearly build on your dance ability if you've never done any close hold dancing before.

I also think philsomove makes a good point about finding good teachers.

[David Bailey]

Personally I think there's two basic types of partner dance and that's open-hold or close-hold.

That's one distinction - another one is progressive vs. non-progressive.

Also, some dances can vary between open and close hold during the dance - salsa is one obvious example.

So, on the whole, I reckon there are two types of people in the world: those who divide things into two types, and others.

[straycat]

So, on the whole, I reckon there are two types of people in the world:

In point of fact, there are three. Those who can count. And those who cannot.

[Andy McGregor]

My advice is to get some private lessons. The simple reason is that the lesson can be tailored to your ability and needs. In a normal class situation there will only be a few bits that are relevant to your current place on the learning curve. In a private lesson it should all be relevant.

How to choose a teacher for private lessons? I wish I knew Many MJ teachers have no idea about frame, timing, footwork, etc, etc. But, for some reason, they have decided to teach. Most of them aren't con-men, they just don't know how bad they are! How do you know your private teacher isn't one of those unknowing clowns?

One way is to go for competition winners or at least finalists. At least there's a good chance they know what's right and wrong. There is still no guarantee that they're good teachers, but it's better than nothing when it comes to selecting a teacher who can help you to progress.

[Gus]

One way is to go for competition winners or at least finalists. At least there's a good chance they know what's right and wrong.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo PLEASE don't do that. With all due respect (IMHO) there is little correlation between competition success and the ability to teach how to dance as, for the most part, competition dancing tends to be more about executing mini-choreographer segments with style and impact whereas I'd like to think that 'dancing' is more about connection with your partner and dynamic interpretation of the music.

I would suggest finding an instructor that dances the way you would like to dance and then go to their dance lessons to find out if they can convey that style. If thats a yes, then book some private lessons. Of course a lot depends on your location and what style you are looking for. In London you have the likes of Nigel & Nina, Tim Sant, Simon & Nicole, Roger Chin etc. In the North you have Phil & Alex, Chris (Boy Wonder) Baker etc. Ask around, look at the teachers from the weekenders ... do any of them look like they have anything they could offer you/

[Gerry]

My advice is to get some private lessons.
One way is to go for competition winners or at least finalists.

&

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo PLEASE don't do that.
I would suggest finding an instructor that dances the way you would like to dance /

I would add that if I was going to take a lesson I would go to a teacher that has proper dance training in another dance form and is a proven dance teacher as well as a DANCER. I think a teacher has to be somebody that you can aspire to be like who can communicate with authority.

In my eyes if you wanted to improve your MJ you wouldn't go far wrong with some one like Cat Wiles, Yes I know she is a WCS teacher but she has been teaching different styles of dance for 10 plus years all over the world.

When you ask her a question she always has an answer which she can qualify, she will teach timing, musicality, etc.

If you get the chance to dance MJ with her don't miss the opportunity.

[jim]

Also, some dances can vary between open and close hold during the dance - salsa is one obvious example.

Or Tango which is an even better example

It's a dance, no it's an embrace, no it's a dance, no it's an embrace.......

[Andy McGregor]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo PLEASE don't do that. With all due respect (IMHO) there is little correlation between competition success and the ability to teach how to dance

I think I made the same point.

One way is to go for competition winners or at least finalists. At least there's a good chance they know what's right and wrong. There is still no guarantee that they're good teachers, but it's better than nothing when it comes to selecting a teacher who can help you to progress.

Absolutely agree that some competition winners are dreadful teachers. However, the other end of the scale is a fabulous teacher with no idea how much they don't know about dancing or just how wrong their dancing is - they'd communicate their bad technique brilliantly and turn out students who dance just as badly. Given the choice between the two I'd pick the champion.

However, personal recommendation is good. Perhaps you need to find out who taught the competition winner.

[Rocky]

One way is to go for competition winners or at least finalists. At least there's a good chance they know what's right and wrong. There is still no guarantee that they're good teachers, but it's better than nothing when it comes to selecting a teacher who can help you to progress.

Good grief, I couldn't agree with Gus more...

Competition dancing and freestyling are two entirely different things and regardless of what people tell you it's obvious that most freestyle competition winners do masses of choreography. In my experience some competition winners are also amongst some of the worst freestylers..

Apart from obviously taking private lessons, freestyling as much as possible with as many different people as possible AND thinking about what you are doing and how your follow is responding to that is a great way of improving you dancing.

The other thing that I would really recommend is going back and doing the beginners classes. You'll know the moves inside out but it gives you an opportunity to really test your lead and it also gives you space to really think about how your lead affects your partner.

[Minnie M]

.....In my eyes if you wanted to improve your MJ you wouldn't go far wrong with some one like Cat Wiles, Yes I know she is a WCS teacher but she has been teaching different styles of dance for 10 plus years all over the world.

When you ask her a question she always has an answer which she can qualify, she will teach timing, musicality, etc........

hmmmmmmm........... I disagree completely

Yes, if you want to learn WCS - Cat is your gal but.............. if you want to improve your current dancing skills, learning a different style, especially someone who doesn't social dance MJ can be stressful, confusing and could hamper your confidence.

The best way to improve is watching your fave dancers, if they teach ask them for a private and freestyle with as many great followers as you can.

[Gus]

In my eyes if you wanted to improve your MJ you wouldn't go far wrong with some one like Cat Wiles, Yes I know she is a WCS teacher but she has been teaching different styles of dance for 10 plus years all over the world.

Good point well made. I've no experience of Cat's teaching but I have seen Paul Warden give a private lesson and I was massively impressed. The only other teachers who I've had the pleasure of seeing teach who were on a par technically (IMHO) were Dave and Lilly Having said that, I'm well out of touch with today's teaching landscape so I may be doing other star's a disservice.

[Minnie M]

hmmmmmmm........... I disagree completely

Yes, if you want to learn WCS - Cat is your gal but.............. if you want to improve your current dancing skills, learning a different style, especially someone who doesn't social dance MJ can be stressful, confusing and could hamper your confidence.

The best way to improve is watching your fave dancers, if they teach ask them for a private and freestyle with as many great followers as you can.

Should have said, this is only my opinion, which is based on my own experience.

[spindr]

Just find the best dance teachers you can "easily" get to!

For some value of "easily" -- Ryan & Jenny teach Lindy in Fleet, and Marchant & Davina teach Salsa in Basingstoke, Tracie teaches Tango in Southampton, there's probably some WCS locally

SpinDr