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Thread: The Housing Ladder

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    The housing ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    One Tomahawk Land Attack Missile (TLAM) is reported to cost $1,066,465 (approximately £650863)

    So your £1400 tax has purchased about 0.215% of one TLAM. Over 100 TLAMS have already been fired into Libya, some from a Trafalgar Class submarine (i.e. a British platform), and some from American platforms.

    Does that make you feel better?
    Oh yes loads better thanks Bubble.

    but that just exasperates my point.

    We have gone in full guns ablazing, protecting the civillians of this country from being massacared YET.... who is protecting the civillians of this country from being massacred finanically.. who is protecting the young from not being able to afford to buy property, not being able to leave the nest of mum and dad, thats of course if mum and dad still have a nest and haven't lost it due to bankrupcy or financial difficulties due to the high taxes, cost and general living this country now has due to it STICKING IT BLOODY NOSE IN WHEN WE CANT AFFORD IT.


    Copied across to Phil's thread- DavidY
    Last edited by Franck; 23rd-March-2011 at 04:50 PM. Reason: duplicate post

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    The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    but that just exasperates my point.
    We wouldn't want your point to get annoyed

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    We have gone in full guns ablazing, protecting the civillians of this country from being massacared YET.... who is protecting the civillians of this country from being massacred finanically..
    Indeed. You can take our lives but you'll never raise our VAT rate inline with the European average Didn't William Wallace say that? no ? I'm sure he meant to.


    who is protecting the young from not being able to afford to buy property.
    Why is that important? People never used to own their homes and because they suddenly thought (it was big in the 80's) that owning your own home was a good idea prices shot up due to competition and a disappearing rental market (Thatchers right-to-buy anyone?). Germans are more likely to rent than buy and their house prices have gone up by 2-3% in the last 10 years compared to our 100% rise. see here.

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post


    Why is that important? People never used to own their homes and because they suddenly thought (it was big in the 80's) that owning your own home was a good idea prices shot up due to competition and a disappearing rental market (Thatchers right-to-buy anyone?). Germans are more likely to rent than buy and their house prices have gone up by 2-3% in the last 10 years compared to our 100% rise. see here.
    Because everybody brought the homes that would house the new families. its called having no choice.

    have a look at rents for properties these days and of course the 20% requirement for mortgage lending makes it nearly impossible for youngsters or indeed young families to ever get on the housing ladder.

    so the long term plan for this country is simply -
    1. spend what we have not got on other countries with no return.
    2. ensure the elderly have to work well into their 80's because they wont be able to retire before that due to financial pressures of raising a family and supporting kids until they are in their 30's to 40's.
    3. ensure all ill people have private health because the national health can not afford to run properly and actually ends up killing people due to the germ ridden wards we now have to face.

    i could go on but no, lets buy another tank so that we can feel we have done what is socially acceptable.

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    People never used to own their homes and because they suddenly thought (it was big in the 80's) that owning your own home was a good idea prices shot up due to competition and a disappearing rental market (Thatchers right-to-buy anyone?).

    House prices went up because they are the prices that people chose to pay in a market economy. In fact, exactly because of this sort of thing...
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Libyans must be able to choose their own destiny
    Also, it's hard to see, whatever you think of them, what Cameron and Clegg can do about house prices, as they are a market rate decided by what people pay.

    20 years ago, houses cost less because interest rates were so much higher. So maybe they should increase interest rates back up (I remember when they were 14%) so that the housing market collapses and prices become cheaper? I can't see that sort of thing going down too well...
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    House prices went up because they are the prices that people chose to pay in a market economy. In fact, exactly because of this sort of thing...

    Also, it's hard to see, whatever you think of them, what Cameron and Clegg can do about house prices, as they are a market rate decided by what people pay.
    Not that hard.

    Aside from asset booms ( where rents and prices diverge because people expect prices to keep on rising ), prices do depend on the market rate.

    Politicians may have more limited control over demand (unless demand is because of an asset boom), but can do a lot about effective supply (in both good and bad ways).


    Case in point. This government removes requirements on local authorities to plan / make allocation for new housing. Local authorities vastly reduce the number of houses they allocate space for.

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Aside from asset booms ( where rents and prices diverge because people expect prices to keep on rising ), prices do depend on the market rate.

    Politicians may have more limited control over demand (unless demand is because of an asset boom), but can do a lot about effective supply (in both good and bad ways).

    Case in point. This government removes requirements on local authorities to plan / make allocation for new housing. Local authorities vastly reduce the number of houses they allocate space for.
    Hmm you may have a point, although once the boom-fuelled prices have inflated, it's hard to get them down again as people are very reluctant to sell houses at a loss, and the builders will no doubt set prices based on higher values rather than low ones.

    Meanwhile, the policitians seem to be propping up the market by giving money (in effect) to first-time buyers, which won't reduce prices a jot...
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Hmm you may have a point, although once the boom-fuelled prices have inflated, it's hard to get them down again as people are very reluctant to sell houses at a loss, :
    But with houses prices falling by 0.5% and inflation at 4.5%
    They are coming down in real terms
    May be we need another thread as this has nothing to do with Libya

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    The Housing Ladder

    From the the Libiya Tread

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    But with houses prices falling by 0.5% and inflation at 4.5%
    They are coming down in real terms
    May be we need another thread as this has nothing to do with Libya
    So I have started a new thread

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    so the long term plan for this country is simply -
    1. spend what we have not got on other countries with no return.
    Indeed, I often rail against those bloody do-gooder Tories, they're famous for splashing out money on all sorts of rubbish, getting involved in ridiculously ill-advised foreign adventures, and generally just handing out public money like sweeties.

    Oh, hold on, I think I confused them with Labour there...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    2. ensure the elderly have to work well into their 80's because they wont be able to retire before that due to financial pressures of raising a family and supporting kids until they are in their 30's to 40's.
    Actually, the demographic time bomb in the UK is far better than that in many other Western countries, mainly because we, ummm, have a large percentage of young people who, ummm, migrated to this country. So if we chucked them all out, we'd actually be far worse off demographically.

    But hey, don't let Evil Facts get in the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    3. ensure all ill people have private health because the national health can not afford to run properly and actually ends up killing people due to the germ ridden wards we now have to face.
    Yeah, it's those bloody Tories again, slashing spending on the NHS and stuff. Or maybe it's bloody Labour's fault, having tripledspending on the NHS over the past 13 years?

    Oh, it's all so confusing. I simply don't know who to blame... I know, FIGHT!

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    i could go on but no, lets buy another tank so that we can feel we have done what is socially acceptable.
    I'm not a strategic expert, but I doubt that tanks will be particular effective in enforcing either a naval blockade or a no-fly zone.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    IMHO the problem is not that people can’t afford to buy somewhere to live but it is about affording a roof over your head. In London it is very difficult to find affordable housing and there is a shortage of social housing.

    If there were sufficient decent properties to rent at reasonable prices maybe we would not be so worried about buying a property, as is common in other parts of Europe and USA

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Actually, the demographic time bomb in the UK is far better than that in many other Western countries, mainly because we, ummm, have a large percentage of young people who, ummm, migrated to this country. So if we chucked them all out, we'd actually be far worse off demographically.

    But hey, don't let Evil Facts get in the way.
    First paragraph, page six of this report:

    'Arguments in favour of high immigration to defuse the “pensions time bomb” do not stand up to scrutiny as they are based on the unreasonable assumption of a static retirement age as people live longer and ignore the fact that, in time, immigrants too will grow old and draw pensions. Increasing the retirement age, as the Government has done, is the only viable approach to resolving this issue.'

    This website is a useful source of information with respect to the housing problem faced by many young people. I pity those who will graduate after paying £9000/year tuition fees and want to buy a house.

    In my opinion, one of the problems in the housing market is the favourable situation with respect to tax. A landlord can buy a property, rent it out to pay the mortgage, and then sell it at a profit, while incurring a lower rate of tax than if they had earned that money through a regular job. I think that's wrong and people should pay the same rate of tax no matter how they earn their money. Apparently some people don't agree and think that a hike in capital gains tax would be unfair.

    I suppose it depends how you view property. As a roof over your head, or an opportunity to make money.

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Also, it's hard to see, whatever you think of them, what Cameron and Clegg can do about house prices, as they are a market rate decided by what people pay.
    They could make buy-to-let less lucrative by taxing all income at the same rates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    In my opinion, one of the problems in the housing market is the favourable situation with respect to tax. A landlord can buy a property, rent it out to pay the mortgage, and then sell it at a profit, while incurring a lower rate of tax than if they had earned that money through a regular job. I think that's wrong and people should pay the same rate of tax no matter how they earn their money. Apparently some people don't agree and think that a hike in capital gains tax would be unfair.
    Actually, looking at the details for the Emergency Budget last year, the rate of Capital Gains Tax was raised from 18% to 28%. But that's still no where near the top rates of income tax (which most people with bulging property portfolios would probably have to pay). In simple terms, I think it's a tax loophole that ought to be completely closed.

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    Re: Libya

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    In simple terms, I think it's a tax loophole that ought to be completely closed.
    The more serious tax loophole is the one where you get to sell your own house without paying capital gains tax/income tax. Without the exemption you'd have to pay 28% on any gain in your house's price, or 40% if you restore the link between CGT and income tax. A really mean government would still charge you stamp duty on top.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Germans are more likely to rent than buy...
    And if rental prices increase too far above average earnings they've always got the fall back position of

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    This country is skin, pennyless, broke, I dont understand why the british govt are borrowing money and gioving out aid to other counties, would you borrow money to buy a big issue, no, because you cant afford it. The bill on the debt interest now exceeds, defence by about double.
    "Dept is the mechanism by which free men make of themslves slaves". Only said 2000 years ago by a Roman. Labour and now the the new Conlibs think we can sort out the middle east, does anyone think Libya will replace Gadaffi with the arab worlds Ghandi, no it will be another corrupt, brutal leader, its what they do, anyway rant over.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    This country is skin, pennyless, broke, I dont understand why the british govt are borrowing money and gioving out aid to other counties, would you borrow money to buy a big issue, no, because you cant afford it. The bill on the debt interest now exceeds, defence by about double.
    "Dept is the mechanism by which free men make of themslves slaves". Only said 2000 years ago by a Roman. Labour and now the the new Conlibs think we can sort out the middle east, does anyone think Libya will replace Gadaffi with the arab worlds Ghandi, no it will be another corrupt, brutal leader, its what they do, anyway rant over.
    So says the voice of general ignorance .

    a. Global finance and politics and their links are more complex than you could imagine and infinitely more complex than you've just tried to illustrate.

    b. "does anyone think Libya will replace Gadaffi with the arab worlds Ghandi, no it will be another corrupt, brutal leader, its what they do" in the civilised world, that sort of statement is what is commonly known as racism.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    ......does anyone think Libya will replace Gaddafi ....
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    ............ a. Global finance and politics and their links are more complex than you could imagine and infinitely more complex than you've just tried to illustrate.............
    NIck, Gav

    Can you explain the link between Gaddafi and Housing?
    Having separate the threads, they now seem to be merging, so there clearly is a link but its lost on me

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    NIck, Gav

    Can you explain the link between Gaddafi and Housing?
    Having separate the threads, they now seem to be merging, so there clearly is a link but its lost on me

    Ask Trouble, she started it

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    NIck, Gav

    Can you explain the link between Gaddafi and Housing?
    Having separate the threads, they now seem to be merging, so there clearly is a link but its lost on me
    I'm sure that there is a very tenuous link, but I was just replying to Nick's post without considering that he may have posted it in the wrong place to start with.
    Unless Nick can find a link, mods, please do feel free to move us.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    This country is skin, pennyless, broke, I dont understand why the british govt are borrowing money and gioving out aid to other counties, would you borrow money to buy a big issue, no, because you cant afford it. The bill on the debt interest now exceeds, defence by about double.
    "Dept is the mechanism by which free men make of themslves slaves". Only said 2000 years ago by a Roman. Labour and now the the new Conlibs think we can sort out the middle east, does anyone think Libya will replace Gadaffi with the arab worlds Ghandi, no it will be another corrupt, brutal leader, its what they do, anyway rant over.
    Ummm, not sure why this is in the Housing Ladder thread...

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