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Thread: The Housing Ladder

  1. #21
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    So says the voice of general ignorance .

    a. Global finance and politics and their links are more complex than you could imagine and infinitely more complex than you've just tried to illustrate.

    b. "does anyone think Libya will replace Gadaffi with the arab worlds Ghandi, no it will be another corrupt, brutal leader, its what they do" in the civilised world, that sort of statement is what is commonly known as racism.

    a its very simple, £20 a year income expenditure £20.025 hell.
    £20 a year income expenditure £19.975 heavan.

    b. The rules are different out there, they play a different game.

  2. #22
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    NIck, Gav

    Can you explain the link between Gaddafi and Housing?
    Having separate the threads, they now seem to be merging, so there clearly is a link but its lost on me
    In trouble's post it started out about military costs which in my opinion we cannot afford, in answer to the price of a house, its price is govered by peoples ability to pay, as this declines through declining wages, job losses and lack of credit, prices will continue to fall, and I think they have a way to go, interest rates determin peoples ability to pay more than anything else, happy weekend people.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by nickc View Post
    a its very simple, £20 a year income expenditure £20.025 hell.
    £20 a year income expenditure £19.975 heavan.

    B. The rules are different out there, they play a different game.
    Hmm, maybe I should listen to my own advice...

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    In trouble's post it started out about military costs which in my opinion we cannot afford, in answer to the price of a house, its price is govered by peoples ability to pay, as this declines through declining wages, job losses and lack of credit, prices will continue to fall, and I think they have a way to go, interest rates determin peoples ability to pay more than anything else, happy weekend people.
    I think the problem sometimes, is that to do nothing is not an option. Governments have a certain obligations not to stand by and let other governments massacre their people Ė this is one of the functions of the UN.

    Just a slightly cynical observation, humanity seems to be more precious where oil is produced

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    In trouble's post it started out about military costs which in my opinion we cannot afford
    Trouble's post was originally in the Libya thread - feel free to put that point there.

  6. #26
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    . Governments have a certain obligations not to stand by and let other governments massacre their people Ė.

    Just a slightly cynical observation, humanity seems to be more precious where oil is produced
    Do they?

    Yes, if Gadaffi were in Uganda, the international give a f**k ometer would still be failing to register.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    The more serious tax loophole is the one where you get to sell your own house without paying capital gains tax/income tax. Without the exemption you'd have to pay 28% on any gain in your house's price, or 40% if you restore the link between CGT and income tax. A really mean government would still charge you stamp duty on top.
    Fair comment. But why are you advocating tax on someones 'own house'? Is it because you think it would keep property prices in check? Or because you think it's a source of income that should be taxed? Or some other reason?

    In my opinion it depends on the circumstances in which someone is buying/selling. If someone is trying to climb the property ladder to accommodate an expanding family they derive no benefit from the increase in value because they immediately re-invest it all in their next property. However, a small number of people perpetually buy a run-down property, renovate it, sell up and pocket the profit. I'm tempted to say that if they are willing to live in a building site then I'm happy to let them keep the CGT. However, if their main employment and source of income is renovating their current property, it probably ought to be taxed appropriately. Other winners are people who sell up to emigrate to a country where property is much cheaper, or downsize from a very large property to a very small one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    that sort of statement is what is commonly known as racism.
    Rumbled!! Gav is actually David Cameron!

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    b. The rules are different out there, they play a different game.
    This article suggests quite a lot of pessimism and a great deal of patience would be appropriate. However, it's easy to forget that the transition to democracy wasn't exactly easy in European countries. Many 1000s of people were guillotined in France during the revolution. Should we expect it to be any easier in Libya?

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    its very simple, £20 a year income expenditure £20.025 hell.
    £20 a year income expenditure £19.975 heavan.
    Unfortunately we'll never know what cuts New Labour might have introduced had they won the last election. Cuts were required to reduce the deficit, however, I wouldn't have put it past them to stick their heads in the sand for another 5 years and carry on borrowing and printing money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Just a slightly cynical observation, humanity seems to be more precious where oil is produced
    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    Yes, if Gadaffi were in Uganda, the international give a f**k ometer would still be failing to register.
    We need to wean ourselves off oil, then we can take a more objective view of the world.

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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    ............ However, a small number of people perpetually buy a run-down property, renovate it, sell up and pocket the profit. I'm tempted to say that if they are willing to live in a building site then I'm happy to let them keep the CGT. However, if their main employment and source of income is renovating their current property, it probably ought to be taxed appropriately..........
    However unless they knock the old house down, and build form the ground up, they will pay 20% vat on materials. and there will be PAYE and National insurance on any one they employ


    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    ........... Other winners are people who sell up to emigrate to a country where property is much cheaper, or downsize from a very large property to a very small one...........
    We live in an overcrowded island so is that a bad thing


    I do find the whole concept of the housing ladder strange. It seems to be based on the concept that the price of houses will always rise above wages and amazingly this continues to happen. Normally anything you buy, like a car, it deprecates but if that happens to houses it’s considered a very bad thing

    Quite a few friends own houses but don’t live in them; they rent theirs out and rent someone else’s


    I cannot decide if increaing houes price is a bad thing or a good thing

  9. #29
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    We live in an overcrowded island so is that a bad thing
    Well we're doing alright up here. The population of Scotland has barely changed over the last 100 years. Overcrowding is a southerners problem

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloa...population.pdf

  10. #30
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    Fair comment. But why are you advocating tax on someones 'own house'? Is it because you think it would keep property prices in check? Or because you think it's a source of income that should be taxed? Or some other reason?




    .



    Unfortunately we'll never know what cuts New Labour might have introduced had they won the last election. Cuts were required to reduce the deficit, however, I wouldn't have put it past them to stick their heads in the sand for another 5 years and carry on borrowing and printing money.





    We need to wean ourselves off oil, then we can take a more objective view of the world.
    We dont need to reduce the deficit, I have actually heard people speak of "paying off the deficit", its the shortfall in govt income, we need to pay off the debt, if you are drowning in debt, sinking at a slower rate is still drowning.

    We wont wean ourselves off oil, we will have starvation, and wars.

  11. #31
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Well we're doing alright up here. The population of Scotland has barely changed over the last 100 years. Overcrowding is a southerners problem

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloa...population.pdf
    That's coz no-one wants to go there

  12. #32
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That's coz no-one wants to go there
    yeah, well you're not invited anyway. so there.

  13. #33
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    yeah, well you're not invited anyway. so there.
    Bloody elitist Scots.

    Err... what was the topic again?

  14. #34
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Bloody elitist Scots.

    Err... what was the topic again?
    dunno, but i think you were about to smash in the shop window of an Angus Steakhouse in protest.

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  16. #35
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    dunno, but i think you were about to smash in the shop window of an Angus Steakhouse in protest.
    Hungry now...

  17. #36
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    there will be PAYE and National insurance on any one they employ
    I was only considering people who do the whole renovation themselves (e.g. a husband-wife or father-son team). Admittedly there aren't many that do that, but for those that do the tax-free 'earnings' at the end can be very large.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    We live in an overcrowded island so is that a bad thing
    Depends who replaces them.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    I do find the whole concept of the housing ladder strange. It seems to be based on the concept that the price of houses will always rise above wages and amazingly this continues to happen. Normally anything you buy, like a car, it deprecates but if that happens to houses itís considered a very bad thing
    Provided a house is well looked after it should rise in value with inflation. In recent years some people have come under a strange illusion that when house prices rise they become more wealthy. They ignore the fact that they can only realease that additional wealth by moving somewhere less upmarket/expensive. I've even known someone who had seven different loans, all secured against their property, because various different lending organisations convinced them that house price rises had made them 'rich'.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Quite a few friends own houses but donít live in them; they rent theirs out and rent someone elseís
    Are they MPs by any chance? This report describes an interesting new scam that sounds like what you've just described.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    I cannot decide if increaing houes price is a bad thing or a good thing
    Good for estate agents,
    Bad for people that need a bigger place for an expanding family,
    Good for people that want to downsize,
    Bad for first time buyers,
    Good if you lost your job and absolutely have to sell,
    Of little consequence to most people who don't fit any of the above categories.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    We dont need to reduce the deficit, I have actually heard people speak of "paying off the deficit", its the shortfall in govt income, we need to pay off the debt, if you are drowning in debt, sinking at a slower rate is still drowning.
    Sorry, I meant debt, not deficit. At the moment we throw away a huge amount of money in interest payments.

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    We wont wean ourselves off oil, we will have starvation, and wars.
    Starvation will come earlier for each field of edible crop that is replaced by bio-fuel crop.

    Maybe now would be a good time to determine whether humans actually have any discernible impact on climate?

  18. #37
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post


    Sorry, I meant debt, not deficit. At the moment we throw away a huge amount of money in interest payments.



    Starvation will come earlier for each field of edible crop that is replaced by bio-fuel crop.

    Maybe now would be a good time to determine whether humans actually have any discernible impact on climate?

    People often can tell the difference between the two.

    I think biofuel is a non starter wont happen on any scale. If you want to know how much energy is in a gallon of fuel, empty your tank and put exactly one gallon in, drive any from your home untill you run out, then push it back, by the time you've got back home you'll know.

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  20. #38
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    Re: The Housing Ladder

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    I was only considering people who do the whole renovation themselves (e.g. a husband-wife or father-son team). Admittedly there aren't many that do that, but for those that do the tax-free 'earnings' at the end can be very large.
    At the end of the day, the tax man will get his share, its called death duties


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