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Thread: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

  1. #21
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    I don’t think I’m normally easily intimidated but I did feel the tango room/milonga at Southport intimidating and unwelcoming. I don’t know how you can change that and make all levels of dancers feel like attending. If they could then you might get your required numbers to make the atmosphere right
    Interesting - I found it less intimidating than a regular milonga - but maybe I've just been to scary milongas!

    I was there with a dance partner which helped as I wasn't sitting on my own most of the time, but a friend who came to see what it was like was left sitting on her own when we got up to dance and was asked to dance several times (she had to decline and explain she was just there to watch).

    I wouldn't want it as busy as a regular milonga though - that would put the beginners off - they usually need a bit more space anyway.*


    *Though the worst floorcraft I observed last time was not from beginners... more like slightly experienced dancers who wanted to show off their 'flash' moves and spending all their time looking at what their partner was doing and not bothering to look where they were going.

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    *Though the worst floorcraft I observed last time was not from beginners... more like slightly experienced dancers who wanted to show off their 'flash' moves and spending all their time looking at what their partner was doing and not bothering to look where they were going.
    I thought the floorcraft at the Camber milongas was pretty good, actually - it was quite noticeable that people were generally obeying the line of dance and so on. Better than many London milongas, come to think of it...

  3. #23
    Registered User kps's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post

    But one thing I'd like to take up with whoever does the scheduling of the weekend....
    On Saturday afternoon, SilverFox was playing an absolutely blinding s'funk set in the Bluesroom and the place was banging, I estimate there was about 300 people dancing and loving it.
    Then at 5pm on the dot, the music had to stop, as a class was about to start. Everyone moaned.
    The atmosphere in that room was electric and it was utterly criminal to stop such an amazing afternoon

  4. #24
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    IMO Camber would be improved so much if the afternoon classes in the Blues room were stopped!
    Camber is lacking in the class department as it is.

    This time around the classes were less attractive than for a while, but that doesn't make a general case for replacing classes with freestyle.

    Next time around there could be a less attractive DJ set.



    There aren't many people around when you start a freestyle period. The freestyle period before can depress the number of people starting the next class.

    People who don't do significant classes are heavily over-represented here.

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Camber is lacking in the class department as it is.
    54 classes is "lacking"? Or is that a cunning play on words?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    This time around the classes were less attractive than for a while, but that doesn't make a general case for replacing classes with freestyle.
    The case is two-fold:
    1. If you have a roomful of people dancing, and you replace it with a half-full class, you're not pleasing the most people.
    2. If you develop an "atmosphere" for daytime dancing, it helps add to reputation, in the same way that the pub area does for Southport.

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    People who don't do significant classes are heavily over-represented here.
    I did 4 classes. I don't think of myself as a newbie.

  6. #26
    Registered User Lynn's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I thought the floorcraft at the Camber milongas was pretty good, actually - it was quite noticeable that people were generally obeying the line of dance and so on. Better than many London milongas, come to think of it...
    Glad to hear it - wasn't so good at SP but it was only a few couples that were really bad - and it was more a case of lack of experience IMO than bad ettiquette. It wasn't that they weren't following the line of dance - but you know the sort that don't look to see if any couples are trying to walk past them before they send their partner into a sweeping move. And yes I've probably seen worse at milongas too.

    Though worst I saw was a couple doing slotted MJ in the line of dance at one side - people were trying to tango around them but the lead kept sending his partner directly into the path of oncoming pairs - not funny to watch as there were nearly some nasty collisions - eventually there was one.

  7. #27
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Though worst I saw was a couple doing slotted MJ in the line of dance at one side - people were trying to tango around them but the lead kept sending his partner directly into the path of oncoming pairs - not funny to watch as there were nearly some nasty collisions - eventually there was one.
    Surprisingly, over 3+ years of running our little Berko milongas, I've never seen anyone do MJ in the Tango sets. If I did, I'd have a quiet word with them.

    Apparently at the recent Tango Feast weekender, there was an actual, honest-to-God, you-want-to-step-outside fight after one collision.

    Of course, it'd only be really authentic if it were a knife-fight.

  8. #28
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
    Though worst I saw was a couple doing slotted MJ in the line of dance at one side - people were trying to tango around them but the lead kept sending his partner directly into the path of oncoming pairs - not funny to watch as there were nearly some nasty collisions - eventually there was one.
    Did they know about "the line of dance"? I didn't before I started, and I remember at Camber in November, a chap who had just done his first tango class came to the milonga and asked me to dance. He didn't know about it, and enthusiastically headed off in the wrong direction till I explained, then, once we were in the line of dance, kept checking behind him (bless him ) until I pointed out that the advantage of the line of dance is that you don't have to keep checking behind you when you're all walking in the same direction. (10/10 for MJ floorcraft though )

    Bearing in mind that the Ceroc milonga's are going to attract complete beginners, maybe a little more needs to be done to encourage good floorcraft that is appropriate to the dance. Even if it's mentioned in classes, people are inclined to forget, so maybe some sort of "Welcome" notice on the door or the wall or leaflets with information about the way things are done at a milonga might be helpful? Not too intrusive, and if someone is causing problems, then the notice can just be pointed out to them. And if you've got leaflets, the teachers could advertise on the reverse.

  9. #29
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    OK, I've finally managed to write up my class notes - enjoy...

  10. #30
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    Bearing in mind that the Ceroc milonga's are going to attract complete beginners, maybe a little more needs to be done to encourage good floorcraft that is appropriate to the dance. Even if it's mentioned in classes, people are inclined to forget, so maybe some sort of "Welcome" notice on the door or the wall or leaflets with information about the way things are done at a milonga might be helpful? Not too intrusive, and if someone is causing problems, then the notice can just be pointed out to them. And if you've got leaflets, the teachers could advertise on the reverse.
    Arrows on the floor.

    Big, bright fluorescent arrows.

    It's the only way to be sure.

  11. #31
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by kps View Post
    The atmosphere in that room was electric and it was utterly criminal to stop such an amazing afternoon
    That was my favourite part of the weekend.

    I felt really free and was probably looking very stupid pulling out disco/nightclub footwork from my long left behind teens, I was having too much fun to care though.

  12. #32
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    The good, um the Milongas, no surprise there,

    The bad, the heat upstairs, but dont worry in June it will be 10 x worse

    The ugly, I just cant do funky, 1970's disco playing and I want to die, I felt at times the stairs PA system was playing far more stuff i'd like to dance to than any of the DJ's.

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    ..But one thing I'd like to take up with whoever does the scheduling of the weekend....
    On Saturday afternoon, SilverFox was playing an absolutely blinding s'funk set in the Bluesroom and the place was banging, I estimate there was about 300 people dancing and loving it.
    Then at 5pm on the dot, the music had to stop, as a class was about to start. Everyone moaned.
    I heard reports that the class had less than half the amount of people who were in the freestyle? (I didn't see this with my own eyes but people told me)
    As a result, the pub was heaving and VERY hot, tot he point, the sweat running off the walls, got into the electrics and the music crashed!

    IMO Camber would be improved so much if the afternoon classes in the Blues room were stopped!
    Well, with 1,500 people there that w/e it's important that the schedule creates a balance - there are a very vocal bunch on this forum who like to freestyle during the day but that is dwarfed by the other attendees who appear not to (and I'm actually one of those...)

    It doesn't matter what the attendance was in the class, the schedule is designed to give variety and choice to everyone.

    As regards SF's set - yes, it was great but he would be the first to tell you that around an hour to an hour and a half is an optimum time for that sort of set. You can play all the great tracks you want in that timescale without diluting it one bit and leave with people wanting more... which is exactly what happened and also explains why there is only one S'Funk set over the w/e.
    Last edited by Rocky; 16th-March-2011 at 02:00 PM.

  14. #34
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well, with 1,500 people there that w/e it's important that the schedule creates a balance - there are a very vocal bunch on this forum who like to freestyle during the day but that is dwarfed by the other attendees who appear not to (and I'm actually one of those...)
    How do you know that those who don't want to freestyle much during the day are in the majority? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just wondering how that conclusion was drawn, what market research has been done?

  15. #35
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Twirly View Post
    How do you know that those who don't want to freestyle much during the day are in the majority? I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm just wondering how that conclusion was drawn, what market research has been done?
    Well umm... if there were 300 people dancing and there are 1,500 on the weekend, that means that 1,200 people for whatever reason didn't find it of interest enough to put on their dancing shoes..

    Now, you could dig down into the reasons why and it maybe that a large number of those actually couldn't give a monkey's one way or another.

    But the point is that the 150 or so people who actually did do the class appreciated the choice - and with more hours of freestyle on the weekend than classes one could argue that the last thing the weekend needs is more afternoon freestyle..

    It's all about balance and about trying to offer something for everyone.

  16. #36
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well umm... if there were 300 people dancing and there are 1,500 on the weekend, that means that 1,200 people for whatever reason didn't find it of interest enough to put on their dancing shoes..

    Now, you could dig down into the reasons why and it maybe that a large number of those actually couldn't give a monkey's one way or another.

    But the point is that the 150 or so people who actually did do the class appreciated the choice - and with more hours of freestyle on the weekend than classes one could argue that the last thing the weekend needs is more afternoon freestyle..

    It's all about balance and about trying to offer something for everyone.
    True, but how many actually do classes at any one point? Not all of them, or you'd never fit everyone in. There will generally be more people not doing classes at any one point I'd have thought.

    I don't think that anyone is suggesting that much in the way of classes be sacrificed for daytime dancing, but the demand has been increasing over the last 2-3 years as the afternoon sessions get busier. Particularly on Sunday when, as someone pointed out above, many people who can't stay in the evening get their last bit of dancing in. And of course if people are leaving, there will be less demand for classes at that point anyway. So maybe a slight rejig of the schedule as I suggested above to allow a little extra dance time might be a good idea.

  17. #37
    Registered User ant's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well, with 1,500 people there that w/e it's important that the schedule creates a balance - there are a very vocal bunch on this forum who like to freestyle during the day but that is dwarfed by the other attendees who appear not to (and I'm actually one of those...)
    I think that one of the weaknesses at Camber is the lack of an ongoing daytime freestyle in a decent room. Is there no way this can be addressed without affecting the workshop structure?

  18. #38
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by ant View Post
    I think that one of the weaknesses at Camber is the lack of an ongoing daytime freestyle in a decent room. Is there no way this can be addressed without affecting the workshop structure?

    It depends what you mean by 'decent' room..? It needs to be of certain size and have some atmosphere, and outside of the main rooms used there simply isn't an alternative without comprimising the class schedule.

    The other factor to bear in mind is that the class structure is there not only to give choice to the customer but also to showcase and to bring on new dance teachers - so there is much more underlying the effect of cutting classes than is immediately obvious.

  19. #39
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by NickC View Post
    I felt at times the stairs PA system was playing far more stuff i'd like to dance to than any of the DJ's.
    Nick I am so with you on that!!! I was there in Nov, had some great dances during the day in the pub, fell asleep in the "Blues room coz it was so boring...... But the Stairs PA rocked the best music all weekend

  20. #40
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    Re: Camber Storm 2011 Aftermath

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyr View Post
    ...fell asleep in the "Blues room coz it was so boring......
    Don't worry Mike, I don't think anyone can tell the difference and it is very easy to get bored of your own dancing especially when all you do is WCS.. in fact there's an interesting thread on that here...

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