Turnmills - a club, they used to do Ceroc there. Or was it salsa? Christ, my memory's going
Turnmills - a club, they used to do Ceroc there. Or was it salsa? Christ, my memory's going
--ooOoo--
Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)
Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
That date is recognized as her official birthday.
Sorry, but no, not necassarily..
It is a beautiful dance and yes you can but all that stuff in but the majority of WCS leads I've seen, apart from the advanced dancers, usually don't.
But it's not the point I'm making.. when people learn WCS and continue to dance it as their main dance style they dance that style to everything that's played - Tango style tracks, Latin style tracks, Blues style tracks, MJ style tracks etc. etc.
In other words, if they have a back ground in other styles (and most have come from MJ and a fair few will have dabled in Tango and Blues) they should vary what they do so they are not just musical but also show empathy for the musical genre they are dancing to.
Sorry, off to teach now and then straight down to Camber - I'll pick this up sometime next week.
Gosh. "Define a beginner" .
I would argue that in a dance like WCS where musciality is so intrinsic to the dance, that, yes, someone without any musicality whatsoever cannot be considered above the beginner level no matter how technically good they are at executing patterns or how many patterns they know. It's just so fundamental.
But, in practise, that depends completely on what you describe as musicality of course. I've heard some people say that musicality starts with just being on beat. *shrug*.
This goes along with the definitions (IMO of course) being far more stretched out than, say, MJ. After three years of WCS, I still classify myself a WCS improver. After three years of MJ, I was a God of Dance (just kidding, but you know what I mean).
And Lory, I don't really think Tatiana is a fair subject , there are quite a lot of transferable skills that means she could probably never be considered a true beginner at any dance .
Last edited by TA Guy; 10th-March-2011 at 07:38 PM.
If someone is dancing WCS, as you describe, with no musicality but simply keeping count to the beat like a human metronome, then yes, IMO, they're either a beginner or improver.
Yes, I take your point to degree.
Although, you **can** dance WCS to many different genres, AND do it justice. If they're not, then maybe they're simply practicing/drilling... If so they're probably beginners or improvers
And as for what they should or shouldn't be doing, - I think people should do whatever the hell they want to do. WGAF.
But the converse doesn't apply - just because you are musical, it doesn't mean you can dance WCS (or any other style) in a musical way. You have to learn what you can do within the framework of the dance.
When I tried learning WCS I found I could hear a break coming, but had no clue how to hit it within WCS patterns, which was frustrating as the break sailed by.
When I started learning MJ I'm sure I was missing at least as many breaks, but I didn't know that it was possible to "hit" them in the first place, so it didn't bother me.
I'm sure I was - when you know that to the exact same track in MJ you could do something more musical with it, it's so tempting to want to try.
Love dance, will travel
Well it is a beautiful dance, but I'm not sure the lack of a lot of people dancing in a musical way is a criticism you can fairly level at WCS.
In short, there are lot's of people in every dance form who may be technically proficient, but not particularly musical. The certainly exist in MJ as well, and I doubt it's much of a reach to extend that to other dances with some sort of connection to MJ either.
I can't imagine WCS to most Tango music, so I won't comment on that one.But it's not the point I'm making.. when people learn WCS and continue to dance it as their main dance style they dance that style to everything that's played - Tango style tracks, Latin style tracks, Blues style tracks, MJ style tracks etc. etc.
In other words, if they have a back ground in other styles (and most have come from MJ and a fair few will have dabled in Tango and Blues) they should vary what they do so they are not just musical but also show empathy for the musical genre they are dancing to.
WCS has a long-running and deep set association with blues music though, so I think you're implication that dancers should choose to dance Blues to blues music over WCS to be presumptuous.
MJ is oh-so-often-touted as being able to be daned to nearly anything. What, then, constitutes a MJ style track and what makes it so different from Latin, Blues, or Tango? Would you criticise someone who chose to dance MJ to a Latin style track over a Latin dance in the same way?
I'm not suggesting that WCS particularly suits every genre of music, because it really doesn't. In my opinion though it suits Pop, R&B, Blues and even Hip Hop very well, and that constitutes a pretty wide range of what get's played at a lot of freestyles. Is it any wonder people choose to dance it almost exclusively?
MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
"If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine
Based on recent experience in the Blues Room, I'd agree with that. It's a massive over-generalisation, but I think a lot of WCS dancers in MJ tend to dance WCS style to everything played, whether or not the music or even the space ( ) allows it.
If I had to develop a theory as to why this is, I'd say it's because it's because it's easy to do - the tempo and a lot of the styles allow you to dance WCS to MJ.
Of course, learning other styles does this too - I tend to default to AT when the tempo slows down past a certain level for example, and even my faster MJ used to be quite Tango styled. But my feeling it that it's not such an easy transition to make, from most other styles, as it is for WCS.
Yeah, and that's rubbish of course.
I guess the problem is, there isn't any specific WCS music - whereas there is, clearly, Latin music, Tango music and so on. But in WCS, it seems that there's simply a range of music which suits dancing WCS quite well - but which also suits dancing MJ quite well.
Funnily enough, I was asked by a few partners over the weekend, if I was doing WCS with them, when they were leading MJ but I wasn't, I was simply adding a few syncopations to my footwork (hopefully, expressing the music )
So it may appear to people watching who don't know WCS, that we're doing WCS all the time
I don't think some people realise that you don't have to just step evenly on every beat, (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8) to still be doing MJ
MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
"If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine
I've had comments along the lines of "Oh I could tell when you were dancing (MJ) that you really wanted to just WCS!"
nevermind . . .
Well of course people should do whatever the hell they like - but if one is gonna insist on whizzing a follow around the floor at double time to a slow romantic blues track then you can expect her to come off the floor wishing that she hadn't been asked to dance to that track by someone who insists on West Coasting everything to death..
I can, and I am - but then I define 'musical' as dancing not only to the structure of a piece of music but also to the 'feeling' and style of that music. And it is manifestly true ('cos I've seen it with my own eyes over the last 4 years) that the vast majority of WCS dancers just WCS to everything.
I'd just like to see them dance to the feeling of the music!
I'll give you an example... Now, I've never been to a full on WCS event, but I have been at numerous events where some of the great WCS dancers have been in attendance - Robert & Deborah, Kyle & Sarah, Jordan & Tat etc. etc and not once, not ever have I seen 2 WCS dancers stay in a close embrace for an entire track.
If you have a 70-80 BPM slow, close romantic track to dance to, many Blues dancers will envelop themselves in the feeling of the song by getting lost in the connection and intricate movement of a close embrace. Now everything is subjective of course, but IMO that is how you dance slow.
What pretty much every WCS dancer I've seen does to this speed of track is use it as an opportunity to double time...
For WCS and what I've seen of it, I would define it as a dance where dancers are constantly seeking to see how much they can put into a dance rather than even beginning to explore how much can be left out.
Anyone who is a musician will tell you that the greatest musicians aren't the ones who can play the most notes. Instead it's the ones who play the fewest notes with the greatest meaning - and so it should be in dancing.
Last edited by Rocky; 16th-March-2011 at 03:15 PM.
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