Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 39

Thread: European Migrants to get full benefits

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    European Migrants to get full benefits

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12633382

    Ok, Im all for world peace and everybody living in harmony BUT is there another side to this that I am just missing.

    It is right that a country (UK) thats suffering so badly with debts and making the British pay for it via taxes that we do this.?

  2. #2
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12633382

    Ok, Im all for world peace and everybody living in harmony BUT is there another side to this that I am just missing.

    It is right that a country (UK) thats suffering so badly with debts and making the British pay for it via taxes that we do this.?
    yes. Why not? If you accept the idea of the EU being a union of countries that are all in it together, then this is necessary. If you believe the UK should stand on its own and leave the EU, then it clearly is wrong from your point of view.

  3. #3
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    yes. Why not? If you accept the idea of the EU being a union of countries that are all in it together, then this is necessary. If you believe the UK should stand on its own and leave the EU, then it clearly is wrong from your point of view.
    For this to be true and fair you'd need to take this to the next level and get people to claim benefits from a pan-European benefits agency.

    The current system falls down because they use their membership of the EU to claim benefits from countries who receive no income from the claimants. It's a bit like making an insurance claim with a company where you have never made a payment.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12633382

    Ok, Im all for world peace and everybody living in harmony BUT is there another side to this that I am just missing.

    It is right that a country (UK) thats suffering so badly with debts and making the British pay for it via taxes that we do this.?
    In my opinion, this situation must logically continue until wealth is equalised between the most wealthy and least wealthy countries in the EU, at which point there is little driving force for immigration. The only other option is that politicians in individual EU member countries rebel against the EU and take decisive action to limit or prevent damage to their own econmoies and standard of living.

    It's a double whammy, because we have huge numbers of unemployed British nationals too. The UK enjoyed years of a booming economy, this was a golden opportunity to get all the long-term unemployed British population into work. Instead of doing that, the government imported cheap labour from abroad. Now we have to pay benefits to twice as many unemployed people.

    Be prepared for much more of the same if Turkey is granted its wish to join the EU.

    Anyway, if you think that's bad, then I'll bet you'll love this story.

  5. #5
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The current system falls down because they use their membership of the EU to claim benefits from countries who receive no income from the claimants. It's a bit like making an insurance claim with a company where you have never made a payment.
    Not really. As it is a European UNION, it is like making a claim with one insurance company even though you took out the policy with a different one in the same union - which is fair enough, thats why there is a union in the first place.

    So whether the system "falls down" or is a roaring success depends on your point of view.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sri Lanka
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    "But the Department for Work and Pensions insisted strict rules would remain in place to prevent abuse and stop "benefit tourism"." Quote from the above BBC article.

    Aren't there strict rules for UK benefit claimants already? And these are never abused.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    "But the Department for Work and Pensions insisted strict rules would remain in place to prevent abuse and stop "benefit tourism"." Quote from the above BBC article.

    Aren't there strict rules for UK benefit claimants already? And these are never abused.
    Prian. your kidding now right !!!

  8. #8
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Prian. your kidding now right !!!
    I assumed he was being sarcastic

  9. #9
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    From that article:

    Estimates in The Times suggest as many as 100,000 migrants could claim tens of millions of pounds in benefits.
    Which estimates? Made by whom? And on what basis?

    Because, you know, that 100,000 figure looks suspiciously round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Ok, Im all for world peace and everybody living in harmony BUT is there another side to this that I am just missing.
    You're missing the fact that because we opened our borders in 2004 to these countries, the UK economy benefitted greatly from an influx of cheap labour. Builders, plumbers, doctors, carers, and other professions boomed because of that influx.

    You're also missing the fact that, now the UK economy is going through bad times, many of those people are leaving and going back home - without us having to pay them unemployment or other benefits. In 2009, for example, more European migrants from these countries left the UK than arrived.

    In other words, we've hired a bunch of contractors during the good times, and we've effectively sacked them during the bad times. And both sides of that equation have been good for the UK economy.

    You're also missing the fact that asylum figures are at their lowest level for over 20 years, and that people generally don't leave Poland to claim benefits in the UK.

    And you're missing the fact that this is a scare story with little in the way of actual, you know, data, to back it up.

    Apart from that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    It is right that a country (UK) thats suffering so badly with debts and making the British pay for it via taxes that we do this.?
    May I suggest you take out a subscription to the Daily Mail?

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Sri Lanka
    Posts
    770
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I assumed he was being sarcastic
    Perhaps a little.

  11. #11
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Not really. As it is a European UNION, it is like making a claim with one insurance company even though you took out the policy with a different one in the same union - which is fair enough, thats why there is a union in the first place.

    So whether the system "falls down" or is a roaring success depends on your point of view.
    In an effective union there would be a pooling of resources. This would mean that funds would come from all members of the union to pay for the services provided by that union. This is simply not the case. Our benefits system if funded by taxation within the UK. It receives no funding from the union. This means there is a good chance that we in the UK are worse off by being members of the union.

    When I voted to join Europe I voted for a common market. I didn't vote to join a European ligislature and I didn't vote to allow foreigners to claim benefits from our funds paid for by UK taxpayers.

    I believe that we should be part of Europe and that the richer and more able countries should help the weaker and newer members. This might mean that we should send European aid to those countries. But I do not believe that we should simply allow the nationals of that weaker country to come and live with us at our expense.

    Remeber the saying, about teaching a man to fish and feeding him for life. They can't fish if they move away from their river. And it does us harm if we teach someone to fish and they subsequently cross the continent to poach the fish from our own rivers!

  12. #12
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Prian. your kidding now right !!!
    Whoosh!

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Unfortunately for all the things that you point out that Trouble might have missed it still doesnt alter the fact that it makes my blood boil everytime I read of Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes funded by me at enormous cost and of immigrants running some kind of illegal gang related crime.It frankly astonishes me the amount of crime related to immigrants that is costing this country millions.
    Oh by the way most of my information is from the mail - as if that makes any difference.

  14. #14
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Unfortunately for all the things that you point out that Trouble might have missed it still doesnt alter the fact that it makes my blood boil everytime I read of Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes funded by me at enormous cost and of immigrants running some kind of illegal gang related crime.It frankly astonishes me the amount of crime related to immigrants that is costing this country millions.
    Oh by the way most of my information is from the mail - as if that makes any difference.
    It makes a pretty big difference really. How many of the 'Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes funded by me' do you know of personally? Likewise, how many 'immigrants running some kind of illegal gang related crime' do you personally know of? I'm not saying that things cannot exist without personal knowledge, just that relying on the Mail for 'most' of your information is unlikely to result in a particularly well informed viewpoint.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    It makes a pretty big difference really. How many of the 'Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes funded by me' do you know of personally? Likewise, how many 'immigrants running some kind of illegal gang related crime' do you personally know of? I'm not saying that things cannot exist without personal knowledge, just that relying on the Mail for 'most' of your information is unlikely to result in a particularly well informed viewpoint.
    Well thats true as well but then again, where does all the information come from and is it reliable.

    If the government have decided to allow this (according to the BBC) then surely thats quite a factual statement. Therefore, regardless of personal thoughts, there has to be something wrong.

    Why should migrants benefit from the pool of money that not only allows UK people to sit on their asses all day (and in not saying all of them but you only gotta see Jeremy Kyle to see there are a lot) then on top of that we will have the Migrants who have been here five minutes on benefits also sitting on their asses all day. I dont know anybody personally thats done either of the above but im sure its exists. Would we get the same benefits abroad in the european countries, not that im aware off we wouldn't.

  16. #16
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Remeber the saying, about teaching a man to fish and feeding him for life. They can't fish if they move away from their river. And it does us harm if we teach someone to fish and they subsequently cross the continent to poach the fish from our own rivers!
    I thought it was; teach a man how to set a fire and he'll be warm all night, set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. I like fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    I read of Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes
    I can't say I have ever read that, but possibly I dont read the Daily Mail enough

    It frankly astonishes me the amount of crime related to immigrants that is costing this country millions.
    I get astonished by the amount of crime related to non-immigrants that is costing the country billions - but they are less squinty eyed and/or darker so I suppose its not so bad all things considered.

    Oh by the way most of my information is from the mail - as if that makes any difference.
    ah. nuff said.

  17. #17
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    it makes my blood boil everytime I read of Eastern Europeans living in palatial homes funded by me at enormous cost
    I'd suggest that you simply avoid reading the type of useless rags which print such utter drivel then.

    I mean, you do realise that most of these stories are specifically written to cause outrage, yes? That they don't represent anything which a normal person would call "the truth"?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    iand of immigrants running some kind of illegal gang related crime.
    Damn right, those immigrant crime lords coming over here and taking jobs from real British criminals.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Oh by the way most of my information is from the mail - as if that makes any difference.
    The Mail does not provide information. It provides a flow of outrage, with little or no actual basis in fact, slanted to meet the bias of its readership.

    It lies, in short.

  18. #18
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Well thats true as well but then again, where does all the information come from and is it reliable.
    Information in the Daily Mail is never reliable.

    Have a look here for an example of what they do. It's fun

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    If the government have decided to allow this (according to the BBC) then surely thats quite a factual statement. Therefore, regardless of personal thoughts, there has to be something wrong.
    It's not that simple. The government had a 7-year exemption from benefits, starting in 2004, which runs out now. That's the deal. The government hasn't "decided to allow this", it's simply the expiration of an agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Why should migrants benefit from the pool of money that not only allows UK people to sit on their asses all day (and in not saying all of them but you only gotta see Jeremy Kyle to see there are a lot) then on top of that we will have the Migrants who have been here five minutes on benefits also sitting on their asses all day. I dont know anybody personally thats done either of the above but im sure its exists. Would we get the same benefits abroad in the european countries, not that im aware off we wouldn't.
    Blimey, you can tell it's a Friday, you do talk some drivel sometimes.

    Just for that, Danny can get his own lycra shorts, he's not borrowing mine now.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Information in the Daily Mail is never reliable.

    Have a look here for an example of what they do. It's fun


    It's not that simple. The government had a 7-year exemption from benefits, starting in 2004, which runs out now. That's the deal. The government hasn't "decided to allow this", it's simply the expiration of an agreement.


    Blimey, you can tell it's a Friday, you do talk some drivel sometimes.

    Just for that, Danny can get his own lycra shorts, he's not borrowing mine now.
    Drivel it may be but fact is, UK is skint, so are most of its British people and here we are spending money we have not got on non uk residents. One day i'll go to the benefits agency and tell them im skint and need a house plus have the rent paid for while i find a new job... do you know what they will say.......... **** OFF. !

  20. #20
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: European Migrants to get full benefits

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Drivel it may be but fact is, UK is skint, so are most of its British people
    Yep. And none of that is due to migrants. Migrants made things better, not worse. Ourt problems are because of a massive splurge from Gordon Brown then Alastair Darling, in the first 10 years of this century. Maybe we should blame the spendthrift Scots?

    Economic migration, from a ruthless pragmatic point-of-view, is a good thing for the UK. The people who come over here work harder and are more dynamic; typically because those are exactly the sort of people who are willing to leave their homes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    and here we are spending money we have not got on non uk residents.
    Yes, indeed. 100,000 of them, according to some guy down the pub.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Silver Membership - Benefits of upgrading your Forum experience.
    By Franck in forum Forum technical problems / Questions / Suggestions..
    Replies: 70
    Last Post: 31st-October-2010, 08:02 PM
  2. A Thread full of Lerve
    By Emma in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 23rd-July-2004, 05:54 PM
  3. Looking forward to the punters' benefits of Ceroc
    By spindr in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 17th-December-2003, 12:27 AM
  4. Personal benefits of the CTA ?
    By RobC in forum Intermediate Corner
    Replies: 69
    Last Post: 10th-December-2003, 11:38 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •