Car insurance for men vs women

[frodo]

, more spurious claims caused by No Win No Fee Solicitors (you would not believe some of the things I have has to deal with!!!) and more fraud.

Perhaps black boxes / the falling cost of such technology will have an increasing effect on fraud / spurious claims - the recent increases being a blip until the effect of such technology takes hold.

Particularly if those caught out by technology can be prosecuted for fraud, rather than just their side of the insurance paying out.

[Lee Bartholomew]

And, apparently, the increasing trend for companies to hire out a car at over-priced rates to the person who was innocent of causing an accident, at vast expense to the insurance policy of the person deemed to be at fault. But it puts all of our premiums up...

This used to happen when I was in the industry. The way we dealt with it then was just to pay a flat rate. Also if the third party turned down the insurance companies hire car (Normally through Enterprise) then they would only be able to claim hire at the rate enterprise supplied the insurance company with a car.

Perhaps black boxes / the falling cost of such technology will have an increasing effect on fraud / spurious claims - the recent increases being a blip until the effect of such technology takes hold.

Particularly if those caught out by technology can be prosecuted for fraud, rather than just their side of the insurance paying out.

It's all about costs though. Insurance companies have some amazing ways of telling fraud claims. I spent 2 years incharge of the fraud unit at the NU claims department I worked in.

Sometimes we had to pay out on cases we knew were fraudulent becuase it would be more expensive to prove the fraud was there.

Once we had a whole group of solicitors shut down as they were involved in Fraud (St Johns Solicitors). They opened back up the next week with a different director and carried on . The only punishment for arranging fraudulent doctors, claims and repairs was for the director at the time to be struck off the solictors register thingy.


Anyways, I don't think insurance companies really want the cost of insurance coming down. The less they have coming in, the less they have to invest with.

Insurance companies work by having the premium amounts coming in, then they set a reserve amount on every claim that comes in, the difference between the two amounts gets invested in different schemes.

[Dreadful Scathe]

you would not believe some of the things I have has to deal with!.

cheezburger ?

[Lee Bartholomew]

cheezburger ?

No thanz I haz one

[philsmove]

Well it has been ruled illegal

Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
eg giving discounts to say nurses

I wonder if there will be challenged on age next

[cederic]

Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
eg giving discounts to say nurses

As it happens, nurses tend to pay more for car insurance.

E.g. a nurse will pay 10% more than a 'Care Assistant' or a 'Paramedic'.

However, it could be worse - Student Nurses pay 10% more than nurses do, and Medical Students pay 15% more.

In other news, your job is a massive factor in your car insurance costs..
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ins...ce-job-picker/

[philsmove]

In other news, your job is a massive factor in your car insurance costs..
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ins...ce-job-picker/

Interesting, I am not going to become a dancer, it increases my premium by 30%

[Trouble]

Well it has been ruled illegal

Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
eg giving discounts to say nurses

I wonder if there will be challenged on age next

Exactly, you have hit the nail on the head. (age will or should be next)
Surely insurance should be estimated on risk. I fail to see how this is discriminating when its nothing to do with actual sex, its based on accident records/claims.

What is the difference between age and sex now then. Are insurance companies discriminating against the youth purely because they are in that age bracket therefore they are going to have an accident, well if this ruling has been allowed then yes they are.

[David Bailey]

Exactly, you have hit the nail on the head. (age will or should be next)
Surely insurance should be estimated on risk. I fail to see how this is discriminating when its nothing to do with actual sex, its based on accident records/claims.

What is the difference between age and sex now then. Are insurance companies discriminating against the youth purely because they are in that age bracket therefore they are going to have an accident, well if this ruling has been allowed then yes they are.

On the plus side, that bloody annoying Sheila's Wheels jingle won't be on our screens anymore...

[gamebird]

On the plus side, that bloody annoying Sheila's Wheels jingle won't be on our screens anymore...

It might just be Sheila and Bruce's wheels instead!

[Trouble]

Or..... bendoverandtakeituptheass.co.uk.

Cause thats what women will be doing from now on. !

[cederic]

I apologise for the vision your comment just created in my mind.

Cheer up though - you're going to get a better annuity payment instead, which is likely to offset any additional car insurance premiums you end up paying (especially if you have a shared policy).

[RedFox]

On the plus side, that bloody annoying Sheila's Wheels jingle won't be on our screens anymore...

Yes it will - they already insure both men and women... though not that many men apply!

[Lee Bartholomew]

Interesting, I am not going to become a dancer, it increases my premium by 30%

The reason work affects it is that you are more likley to be carrying other people of the same profession in your car.

If you have an accident with say a dancer or any other sports person, a broken arm, leg or other injury is more likley to affect the passengers future loss of ernings than it is someone working at a desk position. Same goes with the amount you earn.

With companies like Shelias wheels, Diamond etc, they only offer a certain amount of policys cheaper for women, the rest are either the same or more expensive. It's all about the way they are marketed.

Sheilas wheels are part of Esure (remeber Michael Winners 'Calm Down Dearest')

[philsmove]

The reason work affects it is that you are more likely to be carrying other people of the same profession in your car.

I was told, it was because certain professions do a lot of driving when tired. My dad used to have car hire business, near Newmarket but we could not hire to Jockeys because it was impossible to get insurance for them
other high risks were press photographers and any one in the "entertainment profession "

but that was a long time ago

[Lee Bartholomew]

I was told, it was because certain professions do a lot of driving when tired. My dad used to have car hire business, near Newmarket but we could not hire to Jockeys because it was impossible to get insurance for them
other high risks were press photographers and any one in the "entertainment profession "

but that was a long time ago

It's more to do with loss of earnings from possible passenger claimants in the car.

[DJ Mike]

It's all built on complex statistics, but the root of it is "dancers cost us more in claims so we charge higher premiums". I'm sure 'other dancers' or 'tiredness' might be a factor but ultimately it's all about claims.

There's a great analysis of this situation in this article at The Register. The crux of it is that the ECJ ruling caries potentially far deeper implications for insurance than simply removing male/female statistics from quotes. That insurers will be required to be gender neutral at all could mean they are accidentally breaking the law with other statistics they use in calculating quotes. Certainly an interesting read and by far the best thing I've read in the media about this.

Particularly agree with the point that, if car insurance is meant to be a mandatory social good, and insurers don't use the removal of gender statistics as an excuse to profiteer, insurance quotes for men should go down. Since the entire system is built on an equilibrium of risk assessment - where the total of all premium payments from everybody equals what is being paid out in claims, what should happen is that women's premiums and men's premiums will rebalance to somewhere in the middle to maintain that equilibrium.

[frodo]

Or..... bendoverandtakeituptheass.co.uk.

Cause thats what women will be doing from now on. !

Actually for older women it is good news all round.

The difference narrows and eventually they become a higher risk than men.

[Lee Bartholomew]

Actually for older women it is good news all round.

The difference narrows and eventually they become a higher risk than men.

Going back a few years women already paid more than men, I doubt that has changed, just the way it is marketed.

I was studying for my ACII for awhile (equivalent of a degree in Insurance) and worked for the Motor Inurance Buero, I lost my job 9 months before the end of the 3 year course.

Papers etc will read a lot into it, it makes a good story.

Most insurance companies have several 'brands' aimed at marketing towards different groups. Using Esure as an example, from memory they run the following companies :-

Sheilas Wheels - Aimed at women drivers
Esure - aimed at 20-50 year olds
Drake - Aimed at young males drivers
RAC - Aimed at RAC customers
Halifac - Aimed at Halifax customers

* All From memory


So esure insure pretty much anyone and everyone, t's just that they market each section towards different people. If you are a 18 yr old male calling sheilas wheels, they wont give you a good quote but would say "Drake insurance can give you a policy for £xxxx, ill transfer you through"


Claim amounts make no difference to insurance companies either, All insurance companies 're-insure' losses over a certain level, often with each other, although alot end up with underwriters at Lloyds.


The average claim a couple of years ago was £900 no matter who or how old the policy holder was.

[DavidY]

However if the courts do decide this, I've a hunch that insurance companies will start loading lots of technology into our cars to track exactly what we do, and giving discounts for better driving, fewer miles etc..

Like this, for instance...
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/-pay...aunched/255951

The 'pay how you drive' insurance scheme uses a 'smartbox' and satellite technology to track how, and when, policyholders drive their car. It monitors acceleration, braking, cornering and speed, as well as times of journeys – because young drivers are more likely to have accidents at night.

Assessments are made every 90 days, with discounts of up to 11% off the annual premium given to those who've behaved responsibly. Co-operative Insurance reckons 82% of young drivers could save an average of £328 annually.

If the 'smartbox' reports dubious driving, with speed limits broken and corners taken too sharply, premiums could increase by 15%. If speed limits are exceeded to the extent that a court would hand down a ban to the driver, the insurance policy would be cancelled.

The sneaky thing about this of course is that insurance companies will still charge more for drivers who drive more miles, or who accelerate/ brake more sharply. If those drivers mainly happen to male, then it's not discrimination because it's based on how they drive and a woman driving the same way would be charged the same. But I imagine that young male drivers will still, on average, end up paying more...