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  1. #1
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    Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by cederic in another thread View Post
    That would be nice. I'd like my car insurance to drop in price.
    Just listening to Radio 4's Moneybox and it may yet do exactly that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ox/9401607.stm
    EU gender law to affect annuities?

    Pensions for men could fall and those for women could rise following a ruling of the European Court on March the 1st. The Court will decide if European law allows insurance companies to make different offers to men and women simply on the grounds of their sex.

    At the moment a woman will get a lower pension than a man of the same age with the same pot of money because on average women live longer and the money has to stretch further. If the court follows the legal advice it has been given then such discrimination will have to end.
    Apparently it would make pensions annuities more expensive, and car insurance cheaper for men.

    However if the courts do decide this, I've a hunch that insurance companies will start loading lots of technology into our cars to track exactly what we do, and giving discounts for better driving, fewer miles etc.. This is already happening for some policies aimed at younger drivers.

    If it happens that you turn out to be a lower or higher risk than someone else, then it will be based on lots of non-discriminatory data rather than assumptions based on gender.
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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    The whole concept of insurance is being grossly undermined since the advent of Direct Line.

    The object is to permit the risks of life to be spread around large numbers of people.

    If the insurers slice-and-dice the demographic information, we'll end up with a situation where those people who are higher risk won't be able to afford insurance, and those with lower risk won't pay for it.

    It's yet another example of what happens when you let accountants run the show. Everything except the short-term profit is tossed into the 'don't care' file.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Recently I heard a statistician saying that research into the underlying causes of women's longer life expectancy reveals two very important factors that are going to be disappearing.

    1. Throughout the twentieth century, men smoked, and smoked more, and women didn't and smoked less. This led to earlier deaths on average for men.

    2. Also, men drank and drank more, and women didn't drink and didn't drink so much. This also led to earlier deaths on average for men.

    He said that most of the gap would close as a) these two differentials became of less effect in the population and b) women kept closing the gap.

    So maybe before long women won't live longer lives and the annuity imbalance will disappear.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    At the moment, when employing someone, you can discriminate, on age, if the reason for the discrimination is, you cannot get insurance for them, because of there age. I gather this has been tested in the courts. If it is ruled, insurance companies cannot discriminate on sex, it would seem they would not be abel to discriminate on age either . Cant see this happening.
    Incidentally did you know insurance companies are excluded from the the unfair contract act.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The whole concept of insurance is being grossly undermined since the advent of Direct Line.

    The object is to permit the risks of life to be spread around large numbers of people.

    If the insurers slice-and-dice the demographic information, we'll end up with a situation where those people who are higher risk won't be able to afford insurance, and those with lower risk won't pay for it.

    It's yet another example of what happens when you let accountants run the show. Everything except the short-term profit is tossed into the 'don't care' file.
    I used to work for insurance companies years back, including CGU (& Norwich union/Aviva) Hastings Direct, Drake, The Motor Insurance Beuro and Direct Line.

    Every insurance companie had a target market. Some the over 50's (Saga etc) some for women (Diamond) and some for younger drivers (Drake)

    Taking drake as the example where they insured younger drivers, some of the policys were cheaper than a normal policy would be for a middle aged man / woman with a good driving record !!! I wasn't really in to underwriting so never really found out how they were managing it or how they were underwriting it.

    They were not interested in older drivers, pricing their policys out of the market for them.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    If you were an insurer, i'd imagine you'd quickly note the disproportionate incidents invovling 18-25 year old males. They cause more collisions, crashes, speeding more etc.
    There's a reason why putting a female as a 1st party can actually reduce a guy's insurance costs!

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Incidentally did you know insurance companies are excluded from the the unfair contract act.
    Are you referring to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977?

    If so, I think you are wrong. (Although contracts of insurance are exempt from some of the provisions of the Act - ss. 2, 3 and 4.)

    If you are referring to consumer legislation (Sale of Goods Act, Distance Selling Regulations, etc.) then the reason for the exclusion is that insurance contracts fall within the Financial Services Act which is far more restrictive than the other consumer rules.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 20th-February-2011 at 09:34 AM.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Are you referring to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977?

    If so, I think you are wrong. (.
    I often am
    I just think it unfair, I have to tell the insurance company, about anything ,that they think might effect my premium, even if they have not specifically asked

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Well it has been ruled illegal

    Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
    eg giving discounts to say nurses

    I wonder if there will be challenged on age next

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
    eg giving discounts to say nurses
    As it happens, nurses tend to pay more for car insurance.

    E.g. a nurse will pay 10% more than a 'Care Assistant' or a 'Paramedic'.

    However, it could be worse - Student Nurses pay 10% more than nurses do, and Medical Students pay 15% more.

    In other news, your job is a massive factor in your car insurance costs..
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ins...ce-job-picker/

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Well it has been ruled illegal

    Although there is nothing to stop them discriminating on profession
    eg giving discounts to say nurses

    I wonder if there will be challenged on age next
    Exactly, you have hit the nail on the head. (age will or should be next)
    Surely insurance should be estimated on risk. I fail to see how this is discriminating when its nothing to do with actual sex, its based on accident records/claims.

    What is the difference between age and sex now then. Are insurance companies discriminating against the youth purely because they are in that age bracket therefore they are going to have an accident, well if this ruling has been allowed then yes they are.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Me View Post
    However if the courts do decide this, I've a hunch that insurance companies will start loading lots of technology into our cars to track exactly what we do, and giving discounts for better driving, fewer miles etc..
    Like this, for instance...
    http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/-pay...aunched/255951
    The 'pay how you drive' insurance scheme uses a 'smartbox' and satellite technology to track how, and when, policyholders drive their car. It monitors acceleration, braking, cornering and speed, as well as times of journeys – because young drivers are more likely to have accidents at night.

    Assessments are made every 90 days, with discounts of up to 11% off the annual premium given to those who've behaved responsibly. Co-operative Insurance reckons 82% of young drivers could save an average of £328 annually.

    If the 'smartbox' reports dubious driving, with speed limits broken and corners taken too sharply, premiums could increase by 15%. If speed limits are exceeded to the extent that a court would hand down a ban to the driver, the insurance policy would be cancelled.


    The sneaky thing about this of course is that insurance companies will still charge more for drivers who drive more miles, or who accelerate/ brake more sharply. If those drivers mainly happen to male, then it's not discrimination because it's based on how they drive and a woman driving the same way would be charged the same. But I imagine that young male drivers will still, on average, end up paying more...
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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Like this, for instance...
    http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/-pay...aunched/255951

    The sneaky thing about this of course is that insurance companies will still charge more for drivers who drive more miles, or who accelerate/ brake more sharply. If those drivers mainly happen to male, then it's not discrimination because it's based on how they drive and a woman driving the same way would be charged the same. But I imagine that young male drivers will still, on average, end up paying more...

    This was all mooted about the industry 10 years ago. Never happened then, really doubt it ever will.

    Genral Accident before it became part of CGU now Aviva done a similar thing years back where you paid for the miles you done taken from the cars MOT. It never worked.

    Insurance comanies have it cushty the way things are at the moment.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    This was all mooted about the industry 10 years ago. Never happened then, really doubt it ever will.
    Ah, the irony. Launched today:
    http://www.co-operativeinsurance.co..../Insurance-Car

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by cederic View Post
    Um ... hence my earlier comment and link about the same thing (which to be fair Lee was responding to).
    Love dance, will travel

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