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Thread: Car insurance for men vs women

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    Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by cederic in another thread View Post
    That would be nice. I'd like my car insurance to drop in price.
    Just listening to Radio 4's Moneybox and it may yet do exactly that.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programme...ox/9401607.stm
    EU gender law to affect annuities?

    Pensions for men could fall and those for women could rise following a ruling of the European Court on March the 1st. The Court will decide if European law allows insurance companies to make different offers to men and women simply on the grounds of their sex.

    At the moment a woman will get a lower pension than a man of the same age with the same pot of money because on average women live longer and the money has to stretch further. If the court follows the legal advice it has been given then such discrimination will have to end.
    Apparently it would make pensions annuities more expensive, and car insurance cheaper for men.

    However if the courts do decide this, I've a hunch that insurance companies will start loading lots of technology into our cars to track exactly what we do, and giving discounts for better driving, fewer miles etc.. This is already happening for some policies aimed at younger drivers.

    If it happens that you turn out to be a lower or higher risk than someone else, then it will be based on lots of non-discriminatory data rather than assumptions based on gender.
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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    The whole concept of insurance is being grossly undermined since the advent of Direct Line.

    The object is to permit the risks of life to be spread around large numbers of people.

    If the insurers slice-and-dice the demographic information, we'll end up with a situation where those people who are higher risk won't be able to afford insurance, and those with lower risk won't pay for it.

    It's yet another example of what happens when you let accountants run the show. Everything except the short-term profit is tossed into the 'don't care' file.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Recently I heard a statistician saying that research into the underlying causes of women's longer life expectancy reveals two very important factors that are going to be disappearing.

    1. Throughout the twentieth century, men smoked, and smoked more, and women didn't and smoked less. This led to earlier deaths on average for men.

    2. Also, men drank and drank more, and women didn't drink and didn't drink so much. This also led to earlier deaths on average for men.

    He said that most of the gap would close as a) these two differentials became of less effect in the population and b) women kept closing the gap.

    So maybe before long women won't live longer lives and the annuity imbalance will disappear.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    At the moment, when employing someone, you can discriminate, on age, if the reason for the discrimination is, you cannot get insurance for them, because of there age. I gather this has been tested in the courts. If it is ruled, insurance companies cannot discriminate on sex, it would seem they would not be abel to discriminate on age either . Cant see this happening.
    Incidentally did you know insurance companies are excluded from the the unfair contract act.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    The whole concept of insurance is being grossly undermined since the advent of Direct Line.

    The object is to permit the risks of life to be spread around large numbers of people.

    If the insurers slice-and-dice the demographic information, we'll end up with a situation where those people who are higher risk won't be able to afford insurance, and those with lower risk won't pay for it.

    It's yet another example of what happens when you let accountants run the show. Everything except the short-term profit is tossed into the 'don't care' file.
    I used to work for insurance companies years back, including CGU (& Norwich union/Aviva) Hastings Direct, Drake, The Motor Insurance Beuro and Direct Line.

    Every insurance companie had a target market. Some the over 50's (Saga etc) some for women (Diamond) and some for younger drivers (Drake)

    Taking drake as the example where they insured younger drivers, some of the policys were cheaper than a normal policy would be for a middle aged man / woman with a good driving record !!! I wasn't really in to underwriting so never really found out how they were managing it or how they were underwriting it.

    They were not interested in older drivers, pricing their policys out of the market for them.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    If you were an insurer, i'd imagine you'd quickly note the disproportionate incidents invovling 18-25 year old males. They cause more collisions, crashes, speeding more etc.
    There's a reason why putting a female as a 1st party can actually reduce a guy's insurance costs!

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by t0mt0m View Post
    If you were an insurer, i'd imagine you'd quickly note the disproportionate incidents invovling 18-25 year old males. They cause more collisions, crashes, speeding more etc.
    There's a reason why putting a female as a 1st party can actually reduce a guy's insurance costs!
    However, woman have more crashes per mile driven than men.

    Lower female insurance premiums reflect primarily the lower number of miles women drive. For that reason I'd expect insurance companies to push per-mile policies if they're forced to offer identical rates to men and women.

    It'll mean men subsidising women (by having to pay the same per mile, despite being less likely to crash) but the women will pay far less per year as they do now.

    Men lose out again..

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by cederic View Post
    However, woman have more crashes per mile driven than men.

    Lower female insurance premiums reflect primarily the lower number of miles women drive. For that reason I'd expect insurance companies to push per-mile policies if they're forced to offer identical rates to men and women.

    It'll mean men subsidising women (by having to pay the same per mile, despite being less likely to crash) but the women will pay far less per year as they do now.

    Men lose out again..
    what about crashes per mile for short people compared to tall people? An ex-girlfriends Aunt could barely see over the wheel - surely theres stats on height.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Incidentally did you know insurance companies are excluded from the the unfair contract act.
    Are you referring to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977?

    If so, I think you are wrong. (Although contracts of insurance are exempt from some of the provisions of the Act - ss. 2, 3 and 4.)

    If you are referring to consumer legislation (Sale of Goods Act, Distance Selling Regulations, etc.) then the reason for the exclusion is that insurance contracts fall within the Financial Services Act which is far more restrictive than the other consumer rules.
    Last edited by Barry Shnikov; 20th-February-2011 at 09:34 AM.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Are you referring to the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977?

    If so, I think you are wrong. (.
    I often am
    I just think it unfair, I have to tell the insurance company, about anything ,that they think might effect my premium, even if they have not specifically asked

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by t0mt0m View Post
    If you were an insurer, i'd imagine you'd quickly note the disproportionate incidents invovling 18-25 year old males. They cause more collisions, crashes, speeding more etc.
    There's a reason why putting a female as a 1st party can actually reduce a guy's insurance costs!
    You are also more likley to have an accident if your name is Dave or you drive a red car.

    I sat next to the person who done all the stats for Norwich Union for a year or so (His job was to compile all sorts of stats and send them to the media).

    I remember him saying that women in their 40's was the higest risk group having the most amount of claims (on a per 10,000 policy basis or something compareable), But the most spent on claims (more serious fatal accidents) involve elderly drivers.

    Younger drivers were one of the lowest accident groups.

    I would expect however their policys are more as they are an easy target.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    On a seperate note, When I was the MIB (Motor Insurance Beuro) I used to deal with all the claims involving uninsured drivers.

    Most drivers were serial offenders who would get 6 points and just a £60 fine.

    It's all different now with outright bans / prison sentances, but this is only 5 years or so ago.

    I also sat on the panel sorting out the new police APN system. Originally it was all going to be done over the phone, and still not all insurers subscribe.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Time to renew my car insurance. Hours of my life wasted on the phone or internet trying to negotiate a fairer deal than the rip-off renewal quote. It infuriates me every year.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    Hours of my life wasted on the phone or internet trying to negotiate a fairer deal than the rip-off renewal quote. .
    The first year is often discounted in the hope "they" can make up for the discount when you renew

    so swicing company every year, to get the intructory discount, may be cheaper

    Have you Tried NFU ? They will no be the cheapest but they came near the top on Which customer satisfaction survey. Being a mutual company they give a loyalty bonus after so many years

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Don't tell my employer, but try
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ins...-car-insurance

    Simple guide telling you how to check the maximum number of insurers in the minimum amount of time. You choose how much coverage you want, but you can generally check 90% of the insurers in the country in under an hour or so.

    It's a painful hour, but it's far easier than phoning or relying on a single comparison site.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Younger drivers were one of the lowest accident groups.

    I would expect however their policys are more as they are an easy target.
    Ahem ... http://www.safermotoring.co.uk/Newly...geDrivers.html

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Ahem ...
    Quite. My thoughts exactly.

    Still at a loss as to why quotes should be so high for a middle-aged experienced lady motorist who hasn't made a claim for over 10 years, though.

    Managed to get it down to slightly more reasonable levels after a gruelling few hours on Confused.com - too late to take Cederic's advice.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post

    Yes but did the ABI take in to account the ratio of younger drivers on the road to those older drivers? The fact younger drivers are more likely to be driving at night when more accidents happen.

    Did they take in to account who's fault all these fatal accident were? Were they the younger drivers or the 40 year old that pulled out on to a a main road without looking?

    Stats of course can always be used to prove pretty much anything if manipulated right. Maybe thats what the stats bloke that sat next to me was doing too. Never asked, he was really boring to talk to.

    You have to think also that the ABI defends and sticks up for the insurance industry so they would want to make sure that easy money is not lost within the industry

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Ahem...... http://www.helpguide.org/elder/senio...en_driving.htm

    and Ahem again ..... http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810857.pdf


    The real reason your insurance is going up though is due to lower interest rates and returns on the insurance comapnies investments, more spurious claims caused by No Win No Fee Solicitors (you would not believe some of the things I have has to deal with!!!) and more fraud.

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    Re: Car insurance for men vs women

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    The real reason your insurance is going up though is due to lower interest rates and returns on the insurance comapnies investments, more spurious claims caused by No Win No Fee Solicitors (you would not believe some of the things I have has to deal with!!!) and more fraud.
    And, apparently, the increasing trend for companies to hire out a car at over-priced rates to the person who was innocent of causing an accident, at vast expense to the insurance policy of the person deemed to be at fault. But it puts all of our premiums up...
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