Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 46

Thread: Votes for prisoners

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Votes for prisoners

    Isn't it obvious that the way to deal with this is to allow those prisoners who will not be (according to ordinary principles) still incarcerated at the next general election to vote in the current one?

    Therefore: 2 year sentence - will be out and living in the community for 2-3 years before the next election, so it's not ridiculous to suggest he ought to be able to vote this time round.

    20 year sentence - will still be in prison. Gets no vote, until there's less than 5 years left to serve, and then he might do.

  2. #2
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Isn't it obvious that the way to deal with this is to allow those prisoners who will not be (according to ordinary principles) still incarcerated at the next general election to vote in the current one?

    Therefore: 2 year sentence - will be out and living in the community for 2-3 years before the next election, so it's not ridiculous to suggest he ought to be able to vote this time round.

    20 year sentence - will still be in prison. Gets no vote, until there's less than 5 years left to serve, and then he might do.
    Well, IANAL but one possibility might be to make "removal of voting priviledges" an explicit part of the punishment imposed by a judge - with government guidelines on this, to recommend that this be applied to anyone sentenced to over 1 year's imprisonment or whatever.

    As a general point, it's pretty pathetic that this one gets landed on the coalition government's in-tray - the decision was made in 2005 for chrissakes. It demonstrates how utterly spineless Labour was, that they launched multi-year "committees" instead of, you know, doing anything. And they continue to be spineless by now recommending that the Shadow Cabinet abstain from the vote, because of some smokescreen about "not seeing all the evidence". They were the governing party for 5 years after the decision, they had the results of 2 inquiries (the last of which reported in 2009) - what more do they want?

  3. #3
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    I dont see any reason they should be allowed to vote at all - their liberty has been revoked after all. Can't they save it until they get out.

    I also don't think postal votes should be allowed as much as they are - too easy to "sell" votes, have people use someone elses vote, or force people to sign postal forms. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...oss-capital.do

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    London, United Kin
    Posts
    3,896
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Isn't it obvious that the way to deal with this is to allow those prisoners who will not be (according to ordinary principles) still incarcerated at the next general election to vote in the current one?


    20 year sentence - will still be in prison. Gets no vote, until there's less than 5 years left to serve, and then he might do.

    Sorry to lack controversy here but

    I assume you mean for 20 year sentence, 5 years before their parole date

  5. #5
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I dont see any reason they should be allowed to vote at all - their liberty has been revoked after all.
    That doesn't mean their other rights have been revoked. For example, they still retain the right to life. And the ECHR has ruled that their right to vote should not be removed in a blanket ban.

    There's a Wikipedia page on the case here - interestingly it falls under article 3, which is more usually known as the "don't torture" article, but I assume this is covered under "cruel and degrading treatment".

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I also don't think postal votes should be allowed as much as they are - too easy to "sell" votes, have people use someone elses vote, or force people to sign postal forms. http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standa...oss-capital.do
    Meh. Ireland now allows postal votes for prisoners (after a similar challenge in 2005), I don't think that the current Irish problems are due to that measure.

    Hmmm.... maybe bankers should be denied the vote?

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Waltham Abbey
    Posts
    5,534
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Ireland now allows postal votes for prisoners
    Does anyone know what percentage of prisoners actually use their vote in Ireland?

    I don't want to have to pay compensation to prisoners that have been denied the vote so I say give it to them and speculate that the apathy they place on the value of being decent law abiding citizens will spread to the privilege of having a vote.
    Last edited by Double Trouble; 9th-February-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: spilling ;-)

  7. #7
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I don't want to have to pay compensation to prisoners that have been denied the vote so I say give it to them and speculate that the apathy they place on the value of being decent law abiding citizens will spread to the privilage of having a vote.
    Precisely - it's not a big deal, it's only being made one because everyone's scared of the Daily Mail. Well, everyone except Ken Clarke, who's rapidly turning into My Hero

    We're talking about maybe 100 extra votes in each constituency, maximum.

    Do it, get it done, move on.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Waltham Abbey
    Posts
    5,534
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Ken Clarke, who's rapidly turning into My Hero
    Did you hear him on Jeremy Vine yesterday? He is a bit of a hero isn't he? Why isn't he Prime Minister?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Do it, get it done, move on.

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South
    Posts
    5,424
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    In an ideal world I'd say screw them. IMO when you commit a crime sufficiently bad that you are given a custodial sentence, you should not be allowed to have any say in how your country/region is governed until you have served your time.
    However,

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I don't want to have to pay compensation to prisoners that have been denied the vote so I say give it to them and speculate that the apathy they place on the value of being decent law abiding citizens will spread to the privilege of having a vote.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    I say shoot them all.


    (OOPS did i say that out loud)

    Bloody hell, give them votes, they can have that alongside the computer games, television, food, gym, bill free life.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I say shoot them all.


    (OOPS did i say that out loud)

    Bloody hell, give them votes, they can have that alongside the computer games, television, food, gym, bill free life.
    Since you have such a high opinion of the life they have, can we anticipate that you will soon be committing and admitting to a crime sufficiently serious so that you too will enjoy computer games, television, FOOD, gym, bill free life, etc?

    Is it really something of note, that they get food in prison?

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    6,709
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    In an ideal world I'd say screw them. IMO when you commit a crime sufficiently bad that you are given a custodial sentence, you should not be allowed to have any say in how your country/region is governed until you have served your time.
    You could commit a crime leading to a six month sentence. You will serve three. During those three months, there is a general election. You cannot vote, yet you will soon be back in the community, without having had any opportunity to exercise your democratic rights and there'll be no further opportunity for another 5 years.

    However, someone convicted a couple of months before or after you, and sentenced to the same offence, will still be able to vote.

    Isn't it clear that this is unfair - one person is punished for the same crime, or at least by the same sentence, gets to vote and another doesn't?

  13. #13
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Did you hear him on Jeremy Vine yesterday? He is a bit of a hero isn't he? Why isn't he Prime Minister?
    Because the loonies who controlled the Tory party in 1997 thought that William Hague was a vote-winner. That plan worked out well for them, didn't it.

    Argh, I've now got that image of him wearing a baseball cap in my head.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South
    Posts
    5,424
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Isn't it clear that this is unfair - one person is punished for the same crime, or at least by the same sentence, gets to vote and another doesn't?
    Ah, but you're replying to my "ideal world" post, where my answer would be "Fair? You want fair? Did you care about fair when you broke the law? No, so fek off".

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Waltham Abbey
    Posts
    5,534
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    You could commit a crime leading to a six month sentence. You will serve three. During those three months, there is a general election. You cannot vote, yet you will soon be back in the community, without having had any opportunity to exercise your democratic rights and there'll be no further opportunity for another 5 years.

    However, someone convicted a couple of months before or after you, and sentenced to the same offence, will still be able to vote.

    Isn't it clear that this is unfair - one person is punished for the same crime, or at least by the same sentence, gets to vote and another doesn't?
    Interestingly there was a prison officer who phoned in to Jeremy Vine yesterday who commented that the prisoners who have sentences for less than a year are the “Career Criminals”, who see their loss of liberty as an occupational hazard. It was his opinion that these types were the ones he thought deserved the vote the least as he knew he’d see most of them back inside the following year and that most of them had at least 20 convictions to their name already.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Waltham abbey
    Posts
    4,610
    Blog Entries
    4
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Shnikov View Post
    Since you have such a high opinion of the life they have, can we anticipate that you will soon be committing and admitting to a crime sufficiently serious so that you too will enjoy computer games, television, FOOD, gym, bill free life, etc?

    Is it really something of note, that they get food in prison?
    well yes it is. They get special xmas day dinners, special food for religion. Its getting ridiculous.

    I have an opinion that prisoners who are at the end of the day are inside for being criminals should not have any life what so ever. They should get up, be given basic food rations, allowed nothing and then lights out.

    Re-offenders would perhaps be less.

    Instead we do everything we can to accomodate them.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Did you hear him on Jeremy Vine yesterday? He is a bit of a hero isn't he? Why isn't he Prime Minister?
    Because he doesn't represent his constituents, he has unbalanced and extremist views in various areas (including human rights legislation), he doesn't vote against atrocious legislation and he does the barest minimum level of response to direct constituent contact.

    I live in his constituency and have the misfortune of being misrepresented by this buffoon in parliament. His media image is all cosy sane loveliness but it feels like I'd need deep pockets to actually influence his voting in parliament.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Sorry, back on topic. I'd rather mandate voting for prisoners than attempt to deny it.

    I want criminals to take responsibility, and participating in civil society is a clear civic responsibility. Make them do it, make them demonstrate an understanding of why they need to and how it might impact the laws they're meant to comply with.

    Deny them the vote and you've denied them any obligation to comply with the law of the land. Given they were apparently struggling to meet that obligation to begin with taking it away can hardly help.

    Anyway, the only difference between someone in jail and an MP these days appears to be 'who got caught'.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    290
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    I'd like to see votes for all prisoners in the hope that it encourages politicians to take more interest in the way prisons are run.

    If anyone finds my viewpoint hard to understand then I recommend reading Jeffrey Archers Prison Diaries 1,2 and 3.

  20. #20
    Papa Smurf
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Planet Scathe
    Posts
    12,528
    Blog Entries
    6
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: Votes for prisoners

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    I'd like to see votes for all prisoners in the hope that it encourages politicians to take more interest in the way prisons are run.
    MPs should not respond to something simply because there may be votes in it - they should do the right thing regardless

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Strictly Dance Fever
    By uk-jive in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 810
    Last Post: 6th-October-2005, 11:49 PM
  2. Strictly Come Dancing - Series 2
    By Gojive in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 417
    Last Post: 22nd-December-2004, 09:54 AM
  3. Big Brother can Ceroc!
    By Franck in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 26th-June-2002, 05:09 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •