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Thread: Anyone for Egypt?

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    Anyone for Egypt?

    Is it me or has this country finally gone completely mad.

    Uproar in Egypt with the threat of it moving to sharm el sheik and we are still alllowing people to travel to it with bargain prices tempting you and on top of that, there are no refunds for people already booked.

    HELLO !!

    So, would you go to egypt for £299 all in?

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Having gone twice, I can see some diving/watersports people weighing up the odds. Not like there weren't checkpoints on the way down to Ras Sudr/Moon Beach before all this. Getting stuck out their would be an issue. Disregarding the political upheaval issues, it's akin to getting a last minute non-refundable deal. Not like getting stung by travel to Egypt hasn't happened when things were relatively stable - I know of several friends who lost out on a holiday when an Egypt-route budget airline went under. Thinking solely about price is a bit nuts though. Though I guess many watersports folks can be

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Is it me or has this country finally gone completely mad.

    Uproar in Egypt with the threat of it moving to sharm el sheik and we are still alllowing people to travel to it with bargain prices tempting you and on top of that, there are no refunds for people already booked.

    HELLO !!

    So, would you go to egypt for £299 all in?
    yes. Sharm is horrible though, it looks like Miami and is purely a fake Egyptian town created specifically for tourists. Everywhere else in Egypt is much better.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Is it me or has this country finally gone completely mad.

    Uproar in Egypt with the threat of it moving to sharm el sheik and we are still alllowing people to travel to it with bargain prices tempting you and on top of that, there are no refunds for people already booked.

    HELLO !!

    So, would you go to egypt for £299 all in?
    Karen (Miss Behaviour on here) was due to go there today. I'm guessing she won't be going...

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Karen (Miss Behaviour on here) was due to go there today. I'm guessing she won't be going...
    Well you might be guessing wrong because there are no refunds being given as an option as the travel industry feels nobody is at risk - Sharm el end anyway.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Well you might be guessing wrong because there are no refunds being given as an option as the travel industry feels nobody is at risk - Sharm el end anyway.
    A brutal dictator or democracy. I know what he western world hope for.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Well I have decided not to go ahead and book for my holiday to Cairo and Jordan in May with Los Ocampos, Monica and Omar Was really looking forward to being in the desert dancing tango, but not worth the worry when you're there.

    But as for the Egypt situation who can blame the people for wanting what we take so much for granted in England, namely a right for everyone to vote in a democracy for fairer access to education, services, health, and food. Basic human rights is all the Egyption people have started out asking for lets hope it ends peacefully for them.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    So, would you go to egypt for £299 all in?
    Yes I would go to Egypt, although not to Cairo while there are still curfews there. I went to Luxor a few weeks after the 1997 massacre, the place was nearly deserted. Our group had its own army escort and there were many many police checkpoints.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    but not worth the worry when you're there.
    I lived in two conflict zones. Here in Sri Lanka and Israel, and to be honest would not necessarily have known that there were problems. I certainly did not worry. I think the worry comes mostly from one's friends and relations thinking of you being there. And as has been mentioned there are places in Egypt and Jordan that are perfectly peaceful.

    I would possibly consider Iraq a bit dodgy (especially with the Americans being there), but I could be talked into an Afghan holiday.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    Well I have decided not to go ahead and book for my holiday to Cairo and Jordan in May with Los Ocampos, Monica and Omar Was really looking forward to being in the desert dancing tango, but not worth the worry when you're there.
    Actually, I think Cairo would be OK - I'm fairly sure it'll be stable by May. But I suspect it may start kicking off in Jordan fairly soon... Wait for them to come back to London, that's my advice

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    But as for the Egypt situation who can blame the people for wanting what we take so much for granted in England, namely a right for everyone to vote in a democracy for fairer access to education, services, health, and food. Basic human rights is all the Egyption people have started out asking for lets hope it ends peacefully for them.
    Actually, they mainly want to get rid of Mubarak and stop him passing power to his son; more widely they (quite rightly) despise the corrupt elite who form the regime around Mubarak. But yes, they simply want the same rights we in this country enjoy.

    There's also the pathetic tactic by the established regime to paint the protests as being organised by the Muslim Brotherhood - I heard Boutros Boutros-Ghali on the radio last week spouting that nonsense. There's also this idea that the Muslim Brotherhood = Al Quaeda, which again is total rubbish.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    There's also this idea that the Muslim Brotherhood = Al Quaeda, which again is total rubbish.
    You can understand why people are worried though -its not just caring about our own well-being, its sadness at the slightest possibility that somewhere in the world there could be another islamist regime where women cannot go to school, rape victims are stoned to death and such like. Having been to Egypt I am not so worried; the people on average, are nicer, and more welcoming, than the average person in England. Of course some of that is because as an obvious tourist they wanted my money, but my sister worked there teaching English so we visited families and went to very out of the way places. Egypt is very modern. there are bars with both men and women with "western" clothes (meaning they have as much choice as we do), there are cinemas - hey, they have everything we have, the main difference is the heavy security presence in many places - so very much like northern ireland at one point then.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    You can understand why people are worried though
    Yep. A decade of anti-Islamic propaganda will do that for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    -its not just caring about our own well-being, its sadness at the slightest possibility that somewhere in the world there could be another islamist regime where women cannot go to school, rape victims are stoned to death and such like.
    Well, it's not like Egypt's been a beacon of civilisation under a secular regime. It's been under a "state of emergency" since 1958, corruption is endemic and torture is commonplace. The "elections" there are laughable - basically everyone the regime doesn't like is banned from standing.

    I'm not saying the Muslim Brotherhood are sweetness and light - they have some views on some issues (such as women's rights) which are not nice. And they're definitely not friendly to the West. But that doesn't make them terrorists or extremists - to be honest, they don't seem a long way away from similar parties in Turkey.

    In fact, judging from the behaviour of the current "Independent" (Muslim Brotherhood) MPs, I'd say a Muslim Brotherhood-run regime would be better for the people of Egypt than the current dictatorship.

    But that's not on the cards - they're not a majority party, simply a large minority.

    What's reprehensible is any attempt to portray Mubarak as the only person standing between a stable and responsible regime and a bunch of extremist regligious warmongers. But of course, surely no-one would be stupid enough to say that sort of thing at the moment...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Having been to Egypt I am not so worried; the people on average, are nicer, and more welcoming, than the average person in England. Of course some of that is because as an obvious tourist they wanted my money, but my sister worked there teaching English so we visited families and went to very out of the way places. Egypt is very modern. there are bars with both men and women with "western" clothes (meaning they have as much choice as we do), there are cinemas - hey, they have everything we have, the main difference is the heavy security presence in many places - so very much like northern ireland at one point then.
    Sounds about right, from what I understand of the place.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Yep. A decade of anti-Islamic propaganda will do that for you.
    I won't argue with that - even the little comments in the media all add up to quite an anti-islam bias. And its annoying, as there are some things about "Islamic" countries and "Islamic" people that are reprehensible - but the same can be said about some "western" countries and some "western" people - the news should, you know, just report the frikkin news

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    As with most religions (including Buddhism), it is not the religion that is to blame. Most religions today are not practised according to what their Holy texts or original prophets/leaders preached, but by what subsequent leaders have re-interpreted.

    For example:

    In Buddhism, the first teaching of the Buddha, and the last teaching are very apt. His first 'law' is that you should not enter into this way of life because he (the Buddha), has said so, not because your parents, your teacher, your priest etc have said so, but because you want to and you have looked into it and think it is right for you. (Today in Sri Lanka the senior monks along with the government wish to bring in a law that makes it illegal not to be a Buddhist once it has been deemed that you are).

    On his death bed a disciple asked him who they should follow when he dies. He told the disciple that the Dharma (his philosophy), is what should be followed. He said "I am not a god, do not worship me." Therefore temples, statues, praying etc are nothing to do with Buddhism. But all of which today are considered to be essential to being a Buddhist.

    In Islam Jesus (Isa), is an extremely important prophet. Mohammed goes so far as to say that when the world ends and everyone is judged that it will be Isa who judges. And in Medina there is a place being kept especially for Jesus when he returns. Also in his last public speech, Mohammed said something along the lines of "There are foreigners in your land now who believe in different gods. Do not oppress them or harass them. Let them follow their beliefs in peace. But do not join them. So the practices of the fanatical so-called Muslims today is quite against the teachings of Islam. And to my mind therefore they are not Muslim.

    As for Christianity.......

    All the religions are guilty of such corruptions I have only mentioned two examples.

    Hope I am not going too deep for this thread.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    I won't argue with that - even the little comments in the media all add up to quite an anti-islam bias. And its annoying, as there are some things about "Islamic" countries and "Islamic" people that are reprehensible - but the same can be said about some "western" countries and some "western" people - the news should, you know, just report the frikkin news
    There was a news item a few days ago which highlighted this - ah, here it is, a speech from Baroness Warsi about it.

    It seems like Islam has been pidgeon-holed into "moderate" and "extremist" camps.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    so very much like northern Ireland at one point then.
    but even at the height of the troubles you would have not been attacked by a man on a camel
    Last edited by philsmove; 28th-February-2011 at 11:59 AM.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    There was a news item a few days ago which highlighted this - ah, here it is, a speech from Baroness Warsi about it.
    Hmmm, that name rings a bell. Ah, yes, here we are. Egged by members of her own community for not being a 'real' muslim.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Listening to reports on Tuesday, the journalist spoke of a quite small pro-Governmnet demonstration - a few hundred, he said, as opposed to the tens of thousands of anti-government demonstrators.

    Hmm, thinks Barry to himself, that might be a good trick. Get the pro-government and anti-government in one place, then you can go in to subdue the violence and paint yourself as the saviour of the people.

    Lo and behold! next day, we get reports of serious violence apparently instigated by pro-government 'demonstrators' (paid agents provocateur, depending on who you listen to).

    I missed my calling - should have been a machiavellian dictator, obviously.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    I lived in Israel for 3 years. While there it occurred to me (and with hindsight realised that this was true even of England during the height of the IRA campaigns), that there are 3 levels of reporting terrorist activities. One is the BBC/CNN level......

    "World war III" has broken out in a particular place, don't go there.

    Then there is the local press report. That a bomb has gone off in a particular place, to avoid that area.

    Finally, there is what you see. You may be just a couple of miles away and have no knowledge of what has happened.

    In 2006 a school friend of mine visited me in Sri Lanka with his 2 young children. A week before his arrival a bomb in killed 50 people on a bus. His mother and friends urged him not to come, because of the Beeb's reporting of it. I called him and asked if he was worried and whether he was still coming. He said of course he was coming,he was not worried, he knew that if it was too dangerous, that I would have called him and told him not to come.

    Back to Israel. I was 1km from the Lebanese border. There were constant alerts. But we were told, just watch the reactions/behaviour of the locals. If they seem calm and relaxed then you should be too.

    If everyone based their global travel plans based on whether there might be civil or military problems then no-one would visit anywhere except perhaps Luxenbourg or Switzerland.

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    Re: Anyone for Egypt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    If everyone based their global travel plans based on whether there might be civil or military problems then no-one would visit anywhere except perhaps Luxenbourg or Switzerland.
    Whilst I totally agree with what you're saying - Northern Ireland was absolutely fine to visit, even in the 1980s - there's a difference between "troubles" and "a revolution". Yes, the impact of terrorism is always exaggerated; as we know in London, the tube network was back up and running on the 8th July 2005, and everyone went back to work, went out shopping, went to the movies etc. Hell, for that matter I went out to see Ruby Wax on the evening of 11th September 2001.

    However, the situation in Egypt is looking more and more like a real revolution at the moment. Foreign journalists are being attacked - from both sides - for example. Don't get me wrong - the tourist-only destinations will be fine, they're always fine. But I'd definitely be hesitant about going to Cairo now.

    And if this turns into genuine civil strife, there's more of a widespread risk.

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