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Thread: Leading the follower forward

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    Leading the follower forward

    Now on a lot of moves taught, the lead and follow invariably end up side by side by count 2, ie first move, basket, yoyo, sway etc (yes I know these have gone but variants are still taught).

    Now why do I keep hearing the phrase:

    "Leads, bring the follow to your right hand side"

    Should this not be:

    "Leads, bring the follow directly forward, while you step diagonally forward/left out of the way of the line of dance"

    Or even:

    "Leads, bring the follower directly forward and actually physically move your feet rather than stand there directing the follower to dance around you"

    Anyone know what I'm talking about?

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Now on a lot of moves taught, the lead and follow invariably end up side by side by count 2, ie first move, basket, yoyo, sway etc (yes I know these have gone but variants are still taught).
    All gone? Really? From Ceroc? In the last 5 years?

    I have been away a long time.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Now on a lot of moves taught, the lead and follow invariably end up side by side by count 2, ie first move, basket, yoyo, sway etc (yes I know these have gone but variants are still taught).

    Now why do I keep hearing the phrase:

    "Leads, bring the follow to your right hand side"

    Should this not be:

    "Leads, bring the follow directly forward, while you step diagonally forward/left out of the way of the line of dance"

    Or even:

    "Leads, bring the follower directly forward and actually physically move your feet rather than stand there directing the follower to dance around you"

    Anyone know what I'm talking about?
    I know what you're trying to talk about but you are confusing beats and counts. My guess is that you're not talking about beats at all. You're talking about counts of two beats. If you step the lady back on beat one lady will not be at the guy's right hand side on beat two.

    Confusion between beats and counts aside, I teach that the guy steps off the lady's line on beats one/two. This means he can lead the lady straight forward, into his right hand side as he steps forward on beats three/four before he turns her out on beat five.

    However, there is the, perfectly valid, option of the lead and follow stepping slightly diagonally off the line (this being the line drawn between partners when they are facing each other) to stand side by side.

    I prefer the guy stepping off the line because it means the dance does not rotate at random. I say random, but it is not as the acute angle for the diagonal is based on the width of both partners and the distance between both partners when side by side - this is not random, but it is variable from couple to couple and partner to partner.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I know what you're trying to talk about but you are confusing beats and counts. My guess is that you're not talking about beats at all.
    Since Steven666 uses the word "count" and makes no mention of "beats", perhaps you're the one who's confusing things here.

    It's pretty clear to me he agrees with you about what the correct technique is, his frustration is at it still being taught as if the man doesn't actually need to move at all.

    The only thing I'd say in defense of "not-needing-to-move" is that it means that beginner men who are really struggling can 'sort-of' get the move to work without worrying about their feet. Even so, I'd rather they were told what they should be doing - a decent follower can always work around them (literally!) if needed during the class.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Since Steven666 uses the word "count" and makes no mention of "beats", perhaps you're the one who's confusing things here.
    Sorry, you could be right, I'm always confused when people talk about counts. Do they mean beat counts or do they mean a count of 2 beats?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    It's pretty clear to me he agrees with you about what the correct technique is, his frustration is at it still being taught as if the man doesn't actually need to move at all.

    The only thing I'd say in defense of "not-needing-to-move" is that it means that beginner men who are really struggling can 'sort-of' get the move to work without worrying about their feet. Even so, I'd rather they were told what they should be doing - a decent follower can always work around them (literally!) if needed during the class.
    For quite a few moves I say that it's like flying a helecopter. Each hand and foot does something different. Quite often I break it down and have the guy doing the bit with the feet on it's own and the bit with the hand on it's own. Then I get them to do the two together. For instance, the bit at beat five in the first move where the lady is turned out to step back on her right. I get the guy to lead the lady first and when he's finished that I get him to put his weight on the foot near the lady and step back with the other foot - I try not to talk about left and right feet as guys with two left feet get confused.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Now on a lot of moves taught, the lead and follow invariably end up side by side by count 2, ie first move, basket, yoyo, sway etc (yes I know these have gone but variants are still taught).
    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    All gone? Really? From Ceroc? In the last 5 years?

    I have been away a long time.
    Now why do I keep hearing the phrase:

    "Leads, bring the follow to your right hand side"

    Should this not be:

    "Leads, bring the follow directly forward, while you step diagonally forward/left out of the way of the line of dance"

    Or even:

    "Leads, bring the follower directly forward and actually physically move your feet rather than stand there directing the follower to dance around you"

    Anyone know what I'm talking about?
    I'm starting to feel like I should go to a few Ceroc lessons before I comment ever again, or even before people start thinking of me as an 'old style' Cerocer!
    Basic moves gone, line of dance introduced. Is Ceroc being taught as a slotted dance as standard now?

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm starting to feel like I should go to a few Ceroc lessons before I comment ever again, or even before people start thinking of me as an 'old style' Cerocer!
    Basic moves gone, line of dance introduced. Is Ceroc being taught as a slotted dance as standard now?
    I know exactly what you mean. I was working out yesterday that the last time i went dancing was in May 2010. Southport and im ashamed to say that most of that was spent at the bar !!

    Anyway, i have been keeping an eye on whats going on and it looks as though things have changed quite a lot. Im dancing tommorow night for the first time since May 2010 and even though its (codgers ya like.com) im still thinking.... eeeek.!!!!

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I'm starting to feel like I should go to a few Ceroc lessons before I comment ever again, or even before people start thinking of me as an 'old style' Cerocer!
    Basic moves gone, line of dance introduced. Is Ceroc being taught as a slotted dance as standard now?
    Me too. Think I'll have to revert to being a beginner again when I return home. Or find some "old time" Cerocers to dance with.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    Me too. Think I'll have to revert to being a beginner again when I return home. Or find some "old time" Cerocers to dance with.
    Us "old time" Cerocers have moved on BUT if your lead is good, it wont matter what moves you do - look forward to that dance Prian


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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Haha Mr McG. I know the difference between a ceroc count and a musical beat.

    1 ceroc count = 2 musical beats

    That's why I said count.

    I should have put ceroc infront of count to avoid confusion.

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    Re: Leading the follower forward

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Haha Mr McG. I know the difference between a ceroc count and a musical beat.

    1 ceroc count = 2 musical beats

    That's why I said count.

    I should have put ceroc infront of count to avoid confusion.
    This means you often do two things on one count when you're doing your Ceroc count. IMHO it's more precise to say what you do on each count rather than what 2 things you do on each count.

    With Ceroc counts when do you turn the lady out in the first move? In Ceroc counts it's half way through Ceroc count 3. In the world where you count beats it's simply beat 5. Not confusing at all

    N.B. Thank goodness the 'o' on my keyboard wasn't sticking when I typed "count" after Ceroc

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