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Thread: Insane EastEnders plot

  1. #21
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post

    The BBC provides a valuable public service in more ways than is immediately apparent to a lot of people and is more than worth its fee in my eyes.
    Please can you give a few examples of where the BBC provides a valuable public service "in more ways than is immediately apparent".

  2. #22
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Local and community based programming
    The digital switchover process
    British film and arts commissioning

    Heck, the keystone for me is Project Canvas which is the shake-up to broadcasting that this country desparately needs if we're going to get away from this archaic notion of watching television in an entirely pre-determined, static fashion.

    The point is the BBC isn't just "some TV channels with a load of crap on that people don't like", and the loss of the BBC would be felt far more widely than somebody mentioning "I wish I could watch TV without adverts".

    Really, the licence fee is no different than any other tax you pay. The BBC licence fee has and always will be a tax dedicated to the advancement of arts and information in this country, and I think it would be a sorry reflection on our society if we abolished it and left it to money-hungry commercial organisations to fill the gap. God forbid ITV is ever the pinnacle of our television programming - then we'll have truly sunk.
    Last edited by DJ Mike; 7th-January-2011 at 03:46 PM.

  3. #23
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    Heck, the keystone for me is Project Canvas which is the shake-up to broadcasting that this country desparately needs if we're going to get away from this archaic notion of watching television in an entirely pre-determined, static fashion.
    Ah yes, Project Canvas - another fine example of the big BBC beast out of control.

    To date, there are five major criticisms of Project Canvas:

    1. Lack of information in the BBC Executive's current proposals. Industry associations, the regulator Ofcom, and competitive content providers have all remarked on the lack of meaningful detail publicly released so far.

    2. Unnecessary development of more IPTV standards. Concern that the project is unnecessarily duplicating the existing efforts by various manufacturers and trade bodies to develop standards, rather than meaningfully contribute to these efforts. Related are concerns that the standard developed by Canvas for use in the United Kingdom will possibly be markedly different to continental European IPTV standards.

    3. The potential negative effect Canvas might have on commercial providers in the video and TV market.

    4. A platform that is not truly open. The BBC's proposal for Project Canvas states that there will be "clear editorial standards" in place regarding what content will and will not be allowed. (It should be noted however that these standards have not been made publicly, or possibly even yet drafted by the BBC[1-p12]). It is also reported that some consumer electronic device manufacturers also worry about not having been included around standards discussions with the BBC to date.

    5. Wrong level of Standard - UI Control. Rather than just defining the service specification and having some basic receiver recommendations Canvas is defining detailed hardware and system software requirements and then the Canvas JV will manage application software and UI design. This will restrict the range of devices unnecessarily and deter manufacturers bringing extra features which they may not be able to make easily available to customers. There are also potentially massive liability issues in this approach as it is unclear who would be responsible if an update either caused malfunctions and problems OR removed features. Would the customer or the manufacturer be able to claim against the Canvas JV?
    Other criticisms raised include concerns about the negative impact that increased online video viewing could have on internet service providers' infrastructure and expenses.

    BSkyB
    One of the most vocal opponents of the Project Canvas proposal to date has been British Sky Broadcasting (BSkyB / Sky). Sky's criticisms relate to claims that the BBC should be focused on content and not creating platforms, and that its proposals to date have been severely lacking in detail. It has also criticised the BBC Trust and claimed it does not have a firm grasp of the complexity of the issues. BSkyB's full submission to the BBC Trust's first round of public consultation is available here on the Sky site (PDF)

    Press coverage on August 17, 2009 was given to a letter Sky sent to the BBC Trust, in which Sky criticised two points: the first was the short time given for parties to respond after the further information release in late July; the second was the lack of the Trust asking Ofcom to conduct a market impact assessment[2].

    Intellect - UK CE Council
    From the summary of their response to the Trust. Please note how strong the criticism is for a consensus document of so many parties.

    By seeking to define a UK specific standard in a global market Canvas runs the risk of creating a technological island. Manufacturing economies of scale will be lost, some manufacturers will not make equipment for the UK market and consumers will lose the benefits that these market forces bring such as choice, quality and value for money.
    The BBC has either not carried out due diligence on other existing standards development projects in this area or has decided not to work with them for reasons that have not been made clear.
    There has been a lack of transparency in the process to date which has caused confusion and uncertainty in the marketplace and could directly lead to a significant loss of investment made by manufacturers.
    The consultation makes it clear that Canvas is not an open standard but rather a “standards based open environment”. We believe that genuine open standards while more difficult and time-consuming to develop, have proven to be most effective and successful when deployed.
    The current proposal goes beyond simply creating an open environment. It seeks to assert inappropriate control over parts of the market where manufacturers and retailers would usually compete and innovate to the benefit of consumers e.g. the design of Electronic Programme Guides.

  4. #24
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    They were discussing this on the radio when I was driving earlier.

    Someone made the point that he could imagine the same plot being in a Charles Dickens novel and no-one would think it out of the ordinary. And (as David suggests) it's entirely possible that a lot of people are complaining because other people are; either it's orchestrated or a bandwagon to jump on.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    how many real people wake up to find their 1 day old baby dead and then instantly think "Never mind, I'll just swap my dead one for the live one across the square"?
    Only someone who is mentally ill would do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I imagine its offensive and hurtful to real people who have been through a cot death to watch an unrealistic reaction to a dead baby just to make the story line more interesting.
    So the problem is the combination of cot-death and baby-snatch, rather than either of those on its own? Although the story is in rather poor taste there's always the option of switching off.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    The BBC provides a valuable public service in more ways than is immediately apparent to a lot of people and is more than worth its fee in my eyes.
    In my opinion the BBC is a mixed bag.

    The bad bits:
    They are supposed to be impartial, but anyone who takes their news from more than one source probably knows they have a poor record on this. In September of last year they even admitted it.

    They have a curious take on equality.

    They think Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross are talented stars.

    They can't be trusted to spend the licence fee wisely.

    The good bits:
    They make interesting and entertaining programmes that commercial broadcasters wouldn't want to bother with or couldn't afford to produce.

    Elsewhere in the news:
    It seems some people can't differentiate a soap story line from real life.

    It reminds me of the 'free deidre' campaign a few years ago. Some people really are sad muppets!

  6. #26
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    Oh, wow, words fail me on how endlessly mundane it is to keep hearing comments like this.
    agreed. The BBC is well worth the money as far as i can see, its an institution well worth keeping hold of, even more so now in the era of media expansion. There do seem to be a lot of people eager to jump on the Rupert Murdoch driven anti-BBC bandwagon these days. But what do you get from SKY thats original - Gladiators ?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Well, most of them are probably complaining because their mates are complaining.
    Indeed. I also agree its probably not the idea as such, its the idea done stupidly thats annoying

  7. #27
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    They can't be trusted to spend the licence fee wisely.
    You see, people say things like this, but can you really truthfully say any public institution is any better? Do you trust the government to spend your taxes wisely? Do you trust the NHS to spend your taxes on genuine healthcare needs?

    Any organisation that has public money unfortunately falls afoul of the whole cosey bed situation - "we always have their money coming in, we don't have to worry much". So when they produce crap, it kicks up a stink. When they're seen to spend money badly, it kicks up a stink.

    With private companies you know they have to please their customers, or their customers walk. Not that that always happens though - look at the crap Sky/ITV/et al produce. The only reason there isn't a furore about them is because they aren't publically-owned.

    But, the crucial point - without public ownership - companies have to produce output that makes money in order to survive. All the kind of things that are valued by the public but not commercially viable would go by the wayside - hence my highlighting some things before. Others would include the BBC's Bitesize programme for helping pupils study. I'm sure there are plenty more that are all commercially unviable propositions. It's not a bright future to dismantle a public service just because of tabloid over-exposure to their mistakes. Companies make mistakes. The BBC is a big company. Do the maths.
    Last edited by DJ Mike; 8th-January-2011 at 10:32 AM.

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    Ah yes, Project Canvas - another fine example of the big BBC beast out of control.

    To date, there are five major criticisms of Project Canvas:

    1. Lack of information in the BBC Executive's current proposals. Industry associations, the regulator Ofcom, and competitive content providers have all remarked on the lack of meaningful detail publicly released so far.

    2. Unnecessary development of more IPTV standards. Concern that the project is unnecessarily duplicating the existing efforts by various manufacturers and trade bodies to develop standards, rather than meaningfully contribute to these efforts. Related are concerns that the standard developed by Canvas for use in the United Kingdom will possibly be markedly different to continental European IPTV standards.

    3. The potential negative effect Canvas might have on commercial providers in the video and TV market.

    4. A platform that is not truly open. The BBC's proposal for Project Canvas states that there will be "clear editorial standards" in place regarding what content will and will not be allowed. (It should be noted however that these standards have not been made publicly, or possibly even yet drafted by the BBC[1-p12]). It is also reported that some consumer electronic device manufacturers also worry about not having been included around standards discussions with the BBC to date.

    5. Wrong level of Standard - UI Control. Rather than just defining the service specification and having some basic receiver recommendations Canvas is defining detailed hardware and system software requirements and then the Canvas JV will manage application software and UI design. This will restrict the range of devices unnecessarily and deter manufacturers bringing extra features which they may not be able to make easily available to customers. There are also potentially massive liability issues in this approach as it is unclear who would be responsible if an update either caused malfunctions and problems OR removed features. Would the customer or the manufacturer be able to claim against the Canvas JV?
    Other criticisms raised include concerns about the negative impact that increased online video viewing could have on internet service providers' infrastructure and expenses.

    BSkyB
    One of the most vocal opponents of the Project Canvas proposal to date has been British Sky Broadcasting (BSkyB / Sky). Sky's criticisms relate to claims that the BBC should be focused on content and not creating platforms, and that its proposals to date have been severely lacking in detail. It has also criticised the BBC Trust and claimed it does not have a firm grasp of the complexity of the issues. BSkyB's full submission to the BBC Trust's first round of public consultation is available here on the Sky site (PDF)

    Press coverage on August 17, 2009 was given to a letter Sky sent to the BBC Trust, in which Sky criticised two points: the first was the short time given for parties to respond after the further information release in late July; the second was the lack of the Trust asking Ofcom to conduct a market impact assessment[2].

    Intellect - UK CE Council
    From the summary of their response to the Trust. Please note how strong the criticism is for a consensus document of so many parties.

    By seeking to define a UK specific standard in a global market Canvas runs the risk of creating a technological island. Manufacturing economies of scale will be lost, some manufacturers will not make equipment for the UK market and consumers will lose the benefits that these market forces bring such as choice, quality and value for money.
    The BBC has either not carried out due diligence on other existing standards development projects in this area or has decided not to work with them for reasons that have not been made clear.
    There has been a lack of transparency in the process to date which has caused confusion and uncertainty in the marketplace and could directly lead to a significant loss of investment made by manufacturers.
    The consultation makes it clear that Canvas is not an open standard but rather a “standards based open environment”. We believe that genuine open standards while more difficult and time-consuming to develop, have proven to be most effective and successful when deployed.
    The current proposal goes beyond simply creating an open environment. It seeks to assert inappropriate control over parts of the market where manufacturers and retailers would usually compete and innovate to the benefit of consumers e.g. the design of Electronic Programme Guides.
    Maybe someone could provide some balance by similarly re-posting the criticisms of the criticisms. I can't be bothered googling them.

  9. #29
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by mooncalf View Post
    Maybe someone could provide some balance by similarly re-posting the criticisms of the criticisms. I can't be bothered googling them.
    just SKY propaganda anyway

    especially stuff like "innovate to the benefit of consumers' ... that means 'ability for private companies to take your last penny. twice if we can sell you the same thing again'

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    You see, people say things like this, but can you really truthfully say any public institution is any better?
    So you think it's OK because they're just operating in the same way as other public services? Sounds like a pretty poor justification to me.

    MPs have done a great job of demonstrating why we need more transparency and accountability when public money is being spent. Now we just need to find out what other areas of the public sector are defrauding tax payers.

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    So you think it's OK because they're just operating in the same way as other public services? Sounds like a pretty poor justification to me.
    I didn't say it was OK, I was saying it's foolhardy to think that just breaking up the BBC and privatising it is a genuine solution to the problem. Would you be willing to break up the NHS? The police force? Would that actually accomplish anything? We have already been through this with the rail network and that accomplished nothing worthwhile in the long term - it took one inefficient company and turned it into many, almost all of which are moribund: continually raising fares but evolving precious little. Better to do what a public sector squeeze already does: make the institutions work harder, force them to cut back their excesses and give more value for our money.
    Last edited by DJ Mike; 10th-January-2011 at 08:33 AM.

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    I didn't say it was OK, I was saying it's foolhardy to think that just breaking up the BBC and privatising it is a genuine solution to the problem. Would you be willing to break up the NHS? The police force? Would that actually accomplish anything? We have already been through this with the rail network and that accomplished nothing worthwhile in the long term - it took one inefficient company and turned it into many, almost all of which are moribund: continually raising fares but evolving precious little. Better to do what a public sector squeeze already does: make the institutions work harder, force them to cut back their excesses and give more value for our money.
    and of course the rail network is now worse (deaths brought about by lax maintanence, cancellations, improvements slow or invisible, loss of carriages or whole services for less prosperous routes... ), fares are awful and confusing, and it costs the public MORE money than it ever did before. The only winners are shareholders in the many train companies (even if they too have the inconvenience of travelling by train).

  13. #33
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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Hold on, is the privatisation of the BBC the latest EE plotline?

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    I didn't say it was OK, I was saying it's foolhardy to think that just breaking up the BBC and privatising it is a genuine solution to the problem.
    I never suggested breaking anything up! I just said spending ought to be better controlled. I thought that story I posted of a BBC Bigwig spending £5K on a return flight to South Africa to watch the World Cup was a good example of BBC employees fleecing the taxpayer.

    However, one good thing that could come out of privatisation of the BBC is that the archives could be opened up. At the moment a few programmes make it onto DVD, and the remainder is locked away for ever. I think that's a selfish and inappropriate way to behave with publicly owned material.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Mike View Post
    Would you be willing to break up the NHS?
    Too late! The NHS is already part privatised. Just Google 'Private Finance Initiative'. That was New Labours way of keeping debt off the balance sheets, thereby distorting the measurements of national debt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    The only winners are shareholders in the many train companies


    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Hold on, is the privatisation of the BBC the latest EE plotline?
    It might be if the script writers can't think of some more storylines.

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    Re: Insane EastEnders plot

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    However, one good thing that could come out of privatisation of the BBC is that the archives could be opened up. At the moment a few programmes make it onto DVD, and the remainder is locked away for ever. I think that's a selfish and inappropriate way to behave with publicly owned material.
    This is an interesting point, if only because the BBC genuinely did a limited trial on this quite recently - essentially an iPlayer 2.0 if you will. The idea is that all of the BBC historical programming (that is solely owned by the BBC) would be opened up for all the public to watch.

    I imagine the difficulty here, though, will be that the BBC commissions outside production companies to produce content for them, and I expect part of the agreement is that the BBC only has licence to show them on a scheduled basis, and not on a permanent on-demand basis (so that said production company can make money from DVD sales). So when I say "solely owned by the BBC", that could be more restrictive than you think!

    Still, nice idea in concept, and one I hope they are able to bring to fruition down the line.

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