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Thread: Genetic Engineering

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    Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDJiver
    ...and now that we are playing with genes, anything can happen.
    Genetically modified food - taking the genes that make a fish immune to cold and inserting them into strawberries so that they are more resilient to cold.
    Genetically modified pets - taking the genes that make jellyfish glow in the dark and putting them into fish
    Genetically modified humans - removing dangerous traits and adding in more desirable ones
    Genetically modified medicines - cultivating genetic material to heal/cure people.

    All of the above is happening; man-kind has been "playing god" since we swung down from the trees: Wheat and grain has been cross-bred with other grasses to give a fast growing, disease resistant and higher yield grain. Livestock has been selectively bred to produce better meat in larger amounts and remove un-desirable traits. Pets have been cross-bred and selectively fertilised to produce traits we find appealing. Scanning and blood analysis technologies have been able to diagnose potential problems even before the foetus {sp?} is formed. Pig's hearts have been used to replace human hearts.

    Isn't genetic manipulation just the next logical step? Why can't we have the selective genes of a goat so that we can have five stomachs? A shark so that our blood is immune to disease? What's the problem with growing a new organ from your own genetic material? Why can't someone specify that they want their next child to have the genetics of an athlete?

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    we simply do not know enough about genetics to switch "on" a desirable gene without the possbilitiy of some undesirable aspects also being switched on at the same time, well, at least as far as animal DNA anyway. Plants are supposed to be simpler but theres a big difference between the selective breeding aspects of growing food (that has gone on for hundreds of years) and physical tinkering of the genetic structure.

    For the scary aspects of "picking genes" for children - I advise everyone to watch the Jude Law film "Gattaca" and you may not think its such a good idea .

    Whle I agree genetic manipulation is the "next logical step", the danger is that it is pushed for the purpose of making money first - possible drawbacks will be considered afterward. Sinister aspects of this have already been at work - African farmers have had GM seed sold to them, but it is designed so the plants themselves do not reseed. Thus creatng a captive market for seed, and in a starvng country no less!! Is that a sensible use of the technology ?

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    Commercial Operator Gus's Avatar
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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe
    we simply do not know enough about genetics to switch "on" a desirable gene without the possbilitiy of some undesirable aspects also being switched on at the same time, well, at least as far as animal DNA anyway.
    Beimg only a simple man I look at this way .... we cant even cure the common cold but we are gleefully going about messing around with the code of life itself! Can any genetic boffin put hand on heart and say that they have any idea of the long term genetic outputs? How about a simple mistake that results in NO resistance to colds, or long term criminal tendancies? to think we were always worried about the subtle but terrifying effects of long term low level radiation exposure ... genetic mutations could make the impact of the thalidomide drug pall into insignificance. Would YOU trust them to genetically manipulate your future offspring? Maybe Shelly's creation is closer than we think ....

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Cross breeding is comparatively slow, over generations. Genetic manipulation is much faster but less delicate. I prefer the slower approch. Its a pain cause its slow but things tend not to go wrongas fast either.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    We are our own genetic engineers http://bit.ly/biosee

    Why we should dance and be happy instead of watching the news and being miserable

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Beimg only a simple man I look at this way
    Bread with someone smart, it will reduce the impact of this trait on your offspring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    .... we cant even cure the common cold but we are gleefully going about messing around with the code of life itself!
    Anti-viral technology and genetic technology are different areas of science. We do not fully understand the physics of how bumble-bees fly, but we can still build perfectly competent jet engines.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    Can any genetic boffin put hand on heart and say that they have any idea of the long term genetic outputs?
    Do you fully understand the long-term implications of making this post? They will probably be zero (as will be the case for my post), but this has never stopped people doing stuff. As someone (J. Scott Armstrong, to be precise) once said, "Prediction is very difficult. Especially when predicting the future".

    Quote Originally Posted by Gus View Post
    ... genetic mutations could make the impact of the thalidomide drug pall into insignificance.
    Genetic mutations occur every time our bodies produce a gamite (a sperm or an egg). These are never perfect reproductions of the parent cells, which is a pretty important component of why evolution works. We've been attempting to manipulate this process ever since we started formal agriculture. Every domestic/farmed species of animal is a direct product of deliberate manipulation of genetics inheritance by humans.

    In humans, deliberate mate selection has been going since consciousness emerged (of not before). This is a very strong form of genetic manipulation that's been going on for a very long time.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    We are our own genetic engineers http://bit.ly/biosee

    Why we should dance and be happy instead of watching the news and being miserable
    If what this guy believes is right then mutations are not just random but are also dependent on our perceived environment. Organisms in a threatening environment can be unhappy for long enough to breed before they die. Unhappy organisms have more mutations than happy ones, therefore evolving faster to adapt to their environment.

    One of the mechanisms of adaptation is to unblock blocked genes. This may be beneficial, but it may also unblock bad genes, including cancer producing genes. If that is right then there is a mechanism for placebo and faith healing effects. Being happy and confident could really make you more likely to live longer.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    As someone (J. Scott Armstrong, to be precise) once said, "Prediction is very difficult. Especially when predicting the future".
    Well he's wrong. Predications are easy. Accuracy is a different matter


    When you predict the future you need to "go for it" imagination wise - real life is always surprising. I remember reading the 1996 Tom Clancy novel where war with Japan saw a pilot fly an passenger jet into the capitol building in Washington D.C. collapsing it and killing everyone inside. I remember thinking what a ridiculous plot point that was.
    Last edited by Dreadful Scathe; 15th-October-2009 at 09:05 AM.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    Well he's wrong. Predications are easy. Accuracy is a different matter


    When you predict the future you need to "go for it" imagination wise - real life is always surprising. I remember reading the 1996 Tom Clancy novel where war with Japan saw a pilot fly an passenger jet into the capitol building in Washington D.C. collapsing it and killing everyone inside. I remember thinking what a ridiculous plot point that was.
    As a teen I loved reading the short stories of "Sapper" and O'Henry. I thought of going for a career as an author. I kept coming up with plots for novels but realised they could become blueprints. Terrorists can read Tom Clancy.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by bigdjiver View Post
    As a teen I loved reading the short stories of "Sapper" and O'Henry. I thought of going for a career as an author. I kept coming up with plots for novels but realised they could become blueprints. Terrorists can read Tom Clancy.
    er...i think my point was that real life is always more bizarre than fiction - no matter how bizarre fiction seems to be. There is nothing you could write that is worse than real life.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    er...i think my point was that real life is always more bizarre than fiction - no matter how bizarre fiction seems to be. There is nothing you could write that is worse than real life.
    I also read lots of science fiction, including Harlan Ellison whose victim is terribly re-engineered. "I have no mouth, but I must scream."

    My song "Strange Angels", the Martian's view of Earth, has the line "Their minds can go where their feet don't know". As a species we can extrapolate from experience. Anything we know about, we can imagine worse.

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    Re: Genetic Engineering

    According to Wikileaks the Americans are trying to influence what the rest of the world grows and eats.

    Even if you don't actually object to eating GM produce, the ethics of inventions such as 'Terminator Seeds' are highly questionable and in my opinion represent an absolutely grotesque perversion of the natural world.

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