Page 1 of 14 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 270

Thread: New year, new dance...(apparently)

  1. #1
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Towcester
    Posts
    1,274
    Rep Power
    9

    New year, new dance...(apparently)

    All is about to change it would seem.

    http://www.cerocsmooth.com/?article=6092&page=8300

    Revolution or evolution?

  2. #2
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    I'd be quite interested to see what those changes are. There's been a fair bit of debate around my area lately about the best way to teach Ceroc moves, and part of me would like see the "We've been teaching the moves this way for 20 years" brigade eat their hats if the UK change their stance on how to teach them.

    I doubt there will be much real change to be honest though. With an organisation as large and dispersed as Ceroc even small changes will take a long time to implement across the board, and ensuring those changes are followed would be a pretty challenging task I suspect. Especially in places where the teachers aren't directly answerable to HQ.

  3. #3
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,426
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    I'd be quite interested to see what those changes are. There's been a fair bit of debate around my area lately about the best way to teach Ceroc moves, and part of me would like see the "We've been teaching the moves this way for 20 years" brigade eat their hats if the UK change their stance on how to teach them.
    Reading the article, I don't see much to indicate there will be a change in the way moves are taught.

    To state the obvious, teaching new moves in the same way as the old ones isn't suddenly going to make Ceroc smooth.

  4. #4
    Registered User Nessiemonster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Somerset
    Posts
    631
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    I believe Franck has already started to teach an advanced move at the end of an intermediate class, in at least one venue.

  5. #5
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North London
    Posts
    9,918
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    17

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Interesting stuff!

    What's everyone's predictions?

    Mine are - that it will become more slotted as a rule and (hopefully) the hand bounce will be seen as a thing of the past, almost as serious as the 'no thumbs' rule!
    MODERATOR AT YOUR SERVICE
    "If you're going to do something tonight, that you know you'll be sorry for in the morning, plan a lie in." Lorraine

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    I think this is good. The dance evolves (as has been expressed in other threads) with new influences all the time - WCS probably the latest.

    David & Val already teach a smoother style at Newbury for their Ints.

  7. #7
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Reading the article, I don't see much to indicate there will be a change in the way moves are taught.

    To state the obvious, teaching new moves in the same way as the old ones isn't suddenly going to make Ceroc smooth.
    Granted, I was taking the line "From January we are introducing a brand new range of Beginner’s moves" to imply that some of the old ones will be getting modified (perhaps with a name change as well) to some degree. As you say, simply using a different set of beginner moves won't change anything at all.

    You're right that this isn't actually what they say of course, and I'm aware of that. I'm crossing my fingers though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory
    What's everyone's predictions?
    Virtually no change at any given Ceroc class. A slightly edgier webpage. That's about it.

    But I can still hope for some "official" changes to a bunch of the beginners moves

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    They have been doing this for a week or two at my local class.
    My only observations was that its more time taken up with lessons and not enough freestyle,especially for beginners and people who are doing the advanced that shouldn't even be doing the intermediate - but still do.

  9. #9
    Registered User emmylou25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Banbury
    Posts
    554
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    One of the venues I go to tried the one advanced move in the intermediate class after quite a lot of requests saying it wasn't challenging enough. It was great for people who truly were strong intermediates, but put off a lot of improvers just moving up who couldn't understand the 'you don't need to get every move straight away - take away one or 2 moves a week'. Plus then the 'intermediates' who'd asked for the advanced move didn't like it in the end cos they couldn't get it straight away.

    In terms of the smoothness - think that depends on the teacher - in 3 1/2 years of ceroc classes I've never been taught to bounce, and noone else in my classes have. It's obviously just interpretation (and a need to have an aid to count to the beat) by some people in class that they then find hard to get rid of.

  10. #10
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Franklin View Post
    Reading the article, I don't see much to indicate there will be a change in the way moves are taught.

    To state the obvious, teaching new moves in the same way as the old ones isn't suddenly going to make Ceroc smooth.
    Yes. They're still teaching moves. Just different ones.

    That's not to say that they shouldn't revamp their move set - the discussion we had about Yliander's teaching showed that there's a lot of scope to look at the moves beginners should be taught.

    Personally, I'd like the moves to be simpler, and have each one illustrate one key concept. However, it sounds like Ceroc want the moves to be more complex... so if anything I suspect this will make it more difficult to get people learning to dance.

    So I assume this is mainly done as a marketing exercise, as part of the New Year push for new members.

    But perhaps I'm just being cynical

  11. #11
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Prediction-wise, I'd agree with:
    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Virtually no change at any given Ceroc class. A slightly edgier webpage. That's about it.
    Also, I wonder if, as a whole, Ceroc are losing some market share at their classes - I know that the AT and WCS scenes are growing, for example, so I wonder if those factors are taking customers away from the standard weekly classes.

  12. #12
    The Dashing Moderator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Midlands
    Posts
    3,556
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    In terms of the smoothness - think that depends on the teacher - in 3 1/2 years of ceroc classes I've never been taught to bounce, and noone else in my classes have. It's obviously just interpretation (and a need to have an aid to count to the beat) by some people in class that they then find hard to get rid of.
    I can think of at least one Ceroc teacher who bounced her hand when teaching a class - not just the semi-circle at the start but during other moves too.
    Quote Originally Posted by the link Lost Leader posted
    Our Beginner’s moves and routines have served us well for over a quarter of a century, but the time has come to shake things up!
    I think the whole "quarter of a century" thing is rather a hype. I remember the last big shake-up of Beginners' moves and it certainly wasn't 25 years ago; in fact it will be in old threads on here somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Personally, I'd like the moves to be simpler, and have each one illustrate one key concept. However, it sounds like Ceroc want the moves to be more complex... so if anything I suspect this will make it more difficult to get people learning to dance.
    Well the last shake-up of moves took moves like the Wurlitzer and Half-Windmill (remember that?) off the "Beginners" list, added things like the Back Pass and made the Yo-Yo simpler (taking out a big turn for the follower). So the direction of travel in recent years has been towards more simplicity.
    Love dance, will travel

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    2,041
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    One of the venues I go to tried the one advanced move in the intermediate class after quite a lot of requests saying it wasn't challenging enough. It was great for people who truly were strong intermediates, but put off a lot of improvers just moving up who couldn't understand the 'you don't need to get every move straight away - take away one or 2 moves a week'. Plus then the 'intermediates' who'd asked for the advanced move didn't like it in the end cos they couldn't get it straight away.
    Do they still have the "First Mover" sticker for beginners? I think that helps to create differentiation in classes and a sense of progression. I remember I didn't try an intermediate class for about 6 weeks (as recommended), had to drop out of the first few I tried, then continued to louse things up for the intermediate leaders for a good 6 months after that. Still didn't put me off, though.
    That situation - of one-size-not-fitting-all - builds a good market for cerocshops. I don't think I really began to grasp stuff until I attended some of those.


    Ironically, I'm a lot more put off by "failure to get it" than I ever used to be, so I can sympathise with the people who struggled with the advanced moves. But then, I'd like to see half the moves taught and twice the technique and style.

    In terms of the smoothness - think that depends on the teacher - in 3 1/2 years of ceroc classes I've never been taught to bounce, and noone else in my classes have. It's obviously just interpretation (and a need to have an aid to count to the beat) by some people in class that they then find hard to get rid of.
    I agree that I've never heard a teacher say "bounce", but then I've never heard one emphasise not to bounce, either. So some people pick up the habit unnecessarily due to lack of awareness and appropriate teaching.

  14. #14
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    I think the whole "quarter of a century" thing is rather a hype. I remember the last big shake-up of Beginners' moves and it certainly wasn't 25 years ago; in fact it will be in old threads on here somewhere.
    Yes - they changed the beginners class format to 3 moves a couple of years ago, I think.

    Plus, they change moves all the time, there's that Big Book Of Ceroc Moves, and I seem to recall there's an annual Ceroc Teacher meeting to discuss changes - in January, at the same time as Swinging The Blues I think?

    So, yes, it's a bit hype-y. And it's unlikely that they'll specify what the changes are in detail either - they seem to be a little worried that the beginner move list is vital information which must be protected at all costs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    Well the last shake-up of moves took moves like the Wurlitzer and Half-Windmill (remember that?)
    You're joking, aren't you? I can barely remember how to do the Arm Jive.

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidY View Post
    So the direction of travel in recent years has been towards more simplicity.
    Good point. If the new moves are more simple, that'd be great. But I suspect simpler moves are non-commercial; beginners like complex things.

  15. #15
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    I think this is a great way to get lapsed customers to come back in the new year - well done Ceroc

  16. #16
    Registered User Twirly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    SE London
    Posts
    4,204
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    In terms of the smoothness - think that depends on the teacher - in 3 1/2 years of ceroc classes I've never been taught to bounce, and noone else in my classes have. It's obviously just interpretation (and a need to have an aid to count to the beat) by some people in class that they then find hard to get rid of.
    I have. I've even seen a teacher show how to keep things smooth in a class (think it was a blues class but at a regular weekly class) and it made not one iota of difference - the bouncers still bounced

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Good point. If the new moves are more simple, that'd be great. But I suspect simpler moves are non-commercial; beginners like complex things.
    They may like complex moves but it pointless if they can't pick it up.

    I was at Surbiton last night where they had an advanced class, yes they were mostly all advanced (in age that is, including me) but not in ability. One of the moves was to lead a return with 3 spins. Only one follower that I lead spotted, all the rest I had to churn around and they were travelling all over the place.

    Will also taught a move where the girl had to stand on one leg while the leader walked aroun her. I had to ask how do you actually lead this move as it felt awfull. Once he taught the little inticacy which allowed me to lead the follower and get her onto one leg it felt much better. I still felt that he didn't talk enough about frame which would have meant the girl was more stable.

    In truth I think advanced lessons are great as long as you have students who are at the correct level.

  18. #18
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    They may like complex moves but it pointless if they can't pick it up.
    Customers come in. They pay money. They keep coming back. It's not pointless. It's a great model commercially. It's just not a good way to learn to dance.

    So I guess it depends on your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Will also taught a move where the girl had to stand on one leg while the leader walked aroun her.
    Yes, we do a similar basic exercise in Tango for calecita / planeo movements. It's a simple concept, but it's surprising how difficult it is initially; simply walking in a circle and so keeping the woman on her axis is not trivial.

    I first tried that one out a few years ago with CeeCee, and we found it hard at the start. It's not surprising that others did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    I had to ask how do you actually lead this move as it felt awfull. Once he taught the little inticacy which allowed me to lead the follower and get her onto one leg it felt much better. I still felt that he didn't talk enough about frame which would have meant the girl was more stable.
    It's not so much frame for that movement as axis and stability, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    In truth I think advanced lessons are great as long as you have students who are at the correct level.
    As I said before, I've never been to an advanced Ceroc class. I've been to plenty of classes that were called advanced, but none of them actually were.

    The closest I've found was a connection masterclass Franck did at Southport a few years back.

    So I'm still waiting to see an advanced class.

  19. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    seems very similar to what is being taught already in my local class, smooth and slotted, with the third move of the second session being advanced. May be we have been the guinea pigs

    Its certainly very popular, the class is about twice the size of any other in my aerial

    it wont stop the bouncers, they know it all, learnt it 20 years ago and dont need to go to lessons

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    3,166
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: New year, new dance...(apparently)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Customers come in. They pay money. They keep coming back. It's not pointless. It's a great model commercially. .


    if punters learnt to dance after only one lesson they would never come back

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Dance & Sail 2005 - brought to you by CerocMetro
    By cerocmetro in forum Social events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 14th-March-2005, 02:19 PM
  2. 'fess up guys - How do you decide who to ask for a dance?
    By Chris in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: 8th-November-2004, 11:05 AM
  3. Dance dance dance
    By Flash in forum Fun and Games
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11th-May-2004, 08:52 PM
  4. Dance Refusals
    By Easter Bunny in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 6th-May-2004, 07:54 PM
  5. Dramatising the dance
    By Chris in forum Intermediate Corner
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 24th-October-2003, 03:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •