View Poll Results: What is your preference

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24. You may not vote on this poll
  • I prefer a light lead

    14 58.33%
  • I prefer a strong lead

    1 4.17%
  • I prefer a strong follower

    3 12.50%
  • I prefer a light follower

    9 37.50%
  • I prefer my follower to tell me if my lead is too strong

    7 29.17%
  • I prefer my lead to tell me if my follow is too strong or light

    8 33.33%
  • If my lead hurts me I will just ignore it and dont dance with him again

    5 20.83%
  • What is all the fuss about ??????

    0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Strong or Light ??

  1. #1
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Strong or Light ??

    From the amount of PM's I have received this person is well known by the followers and they are making their own stands by keeping well clear of him
    .

    It does make me wonder why they are doing their complaining to you and not directly to him. If every follower who had a problem either said no to him, and why, or explicitly stated that they didn't want to be hurt, then there might be some chance of sorting the situation out.

    The young lady is the one who needs to be the confrontational character. Unless this man hears complaints directly from his followers he is unlikely to believe that he has a problem, anyway.

    Strong Leads
    Some men do have strong leads, I noticed that the mood of the lead can also determine the strength of their lead (stronger when stressed or nervous), however, if this lead is well know and if it is causing discomfort to the follower, or 'possible' discomfort - TELL HIM ! Much better then telling others and then it appearing here. I am sure the man concerned must know who we are talking about and he must be feeling very embarassed and possible hurt by it all.


    Light Leads
    This could be the reverse, when the lead is very light, the follower often compensates and clings on (aka stirring thick custard) - possible causing injury to both parties.

    Whoops, can some nice kind Mod please change my option to make sense (I prefer my lead to tell me if my lead is too strong or light) should be if my FOLLOW ........... thanks xx
    Last edited by Minnie M; 24th-October-2010 at 01:31 PM.


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Gerry (24th-October-2010)

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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    why the choice between two subjective extremes ? I want my lead to be just right. Is that too much to ask for?

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    gamebird (25th-October-2010)

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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    I think it's not a question of being a strong or light lead, what's more important for me is being lead properly, which can be done light, strong or even better, somewhere in the middle.

    Just thinking of a recent great example of what I'm saying would be the couple of lovely dances I had on Friday night with Latin Lover. I could dance and chat with him almost on auto pilot as his lead was precise, smooth with lots of fun and musicality thrown in, not too strong and not too light.

    My experience of leads who get it wrong, but think they are fantastic dancers, in every case, is that they won't be criticised. They see it more as a failing on the followers part if a follower dares to criticise them.

    As a result of the above I have chosen from the poll that if a lead hurts me, I'll say nothing but not dance with them again.

  6. 2 'Thanks':

    Minnie M (24th-October-2010), Phil_dB (25th-October-2010)

  7. #4
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Apparently the guys that have the srongest leads are not getting any sex...

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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    his lead was precise, smooth with lots of fun and musicality thrown in, not too strong and not too light.
    Yes, I can cope with a strong lead if it is absolutely accurate and takes into account my ability to follow and work with it. The most damaging physically is a powerful lead that is slightly mistimed, misplaced, jerky, off balance or makes massive physical demands on me by not preparing me adequately for a sudden, ambitious move. A musical lead harnesses the music to help prepare the follower.

    There's not many i would refuse to dance with again but I do tend to remember pain!

  9. 4 'Thanks':

    Double Trouble (24th-October-2010), firefly (24th-October-2010), Minnie M (24th-October-2010), whitetiger1518 (25th-October-2010)

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    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Apparently the guys that have the srongest leads are not getting any sex...
    yup, you could be right, I thought it was a mood swing

    I am going to be concerned about strong leads now


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    I am going to be concerned about strong leads now
    What, concerned enough to... you know.....?

  12. #8
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by jivecat View Post
    What, concerned enough to... you know.....?
    A lady never says


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  13. #9
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    I just like a clear lead...most of my favourite leads have light leads but they are clear and I know where I am being directed to go/or to stop. Some of my other favourites have stronger leads but again they are clear so that's good too.

    I don't, however, like a forceful lead (so wouldn't rush to ask for a dance but still often enjoy the dance for what it is). I love dancing but a forceful lead makes me feel that I'm being dictated too rather than dancing "with" somebody.

    Last edited by jive-vee; 24th-October-2010 at 04:33 PM.

  14. 8 'Thanks':

    Battlecat (24th-October-2010), emmylou25 (25th-October-2010), firefly (24th-October-2010), Lory (25th-October-2010), Moondancer (25th-October-2010), Nessiemonster (24th-October-2010), rubyred (24th-October-2010), Twirly (25th-October-2010)

  15. #10
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by jive-vee View Post
    I just like a clear lead...most of my favourite leads have light leads but they are clear and I know where I am being directed to go/or to stop. Some of my other favourites have stronger leads but again they are clear so that's good too.

    I don't, however, like a forceful lead (so wouldn't rush to ask for a dance but sill often enjoy the dance for what it is). I love dancing but a forceful lead makes me feel that I'm being dictated too rather than dancing "with" somebody.


    talks sense that jive-vee lass


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  16. Thanks:

    jive-vee (24th-October-2010)

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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    talks sense that jive-vee lass
    First time she'll have heard that in ages

    *runs and hides*

  18. #12
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post
    First time she'll have heard that in ages

    *runs and hides*
    Yeah, you'd better hide how rude(!)

  19. #13
    Senior Member rubyred's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    A forceful lead is like being in scuffle, pulled and pushed in all directions and ending up with bruises sometimes. A strong lead is not always a forceful lead if balance, musicality, interpretation and playfulness comes into dance.

    A clear lead for me is an invitation to follow where the leader wants me to place my feet, move my body and preform the move that I am being lead to do. The dance for me should be a story between the leader and follower, connecting and interpreting the music together, not a tossle in a boxing ring. In reference to moves, its not the amount but instead how they are carried out. Some of the simplest beginner moves work so well when they are lead smoothly.
    Last edited by rubyred; 24th-October-2010 at 10:41 PM.
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

  20. 2 'Thanks':

    jive-vee (24th-October-2010), Twirly (25th-October-2010)

  21. #14
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    I don't mind if the lead is VERY light, as long as it's clear. If the lead is so light that it is almost non-existant, and its not clear what they want me to do, then I find myself guessing/anticipating at times, (or it could be that I am being an unresponsive follow).

    I don't more force as long as its smooth & not jerky. Whilst being led by someone's who is using a lot of physical strength I'll be constantly trying to protect myself against injury. Regardless of stature, I think physically, you're in much more vulnerable position when you're following than when you're leading.

    I would've thought that most leads will/should vary the force of their lead depending on who they are dancing with, how responsive the follower is, and will try and match the compression/tension they're receiving.

  22. #15
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    I agree with what most people have said...it's more about a clear and definite lead rather than a strong or light lead (having said that, I'd prefer and dance better with a light lead, as proven by an experiment my old salsa teacher once tried on me).

    I'd also like a lead to be responsive to their follow and the music - and I hope when I lead I manage to do this. Some people need more lead than others, in particular some beginners or less experienced followers who don't seem to move when you're directing them. These I'll probably avoid dancing with again as it's just too painful if they don't respond (hopefully it's not my lead given that most people seem responsive even if they don't know the move I'm leading)

  23. #16
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    When dancing to faster music, one 'needs' more tension in the frame, in order to be able to react quickly and the partnership relys more on being able to match tention and weight and this way we feel balanced and safe. This might be discribing a 'strong lead'?

    When dancing to slower music, we've got time to be more fluid in the connection and the lead can be delicate and soft.

    IMO strong and light, are both valid, under different circumstances!

    I don't think I could enjoy a fast dance with a very very light lead because I like to use the tention created, to give more impact.
    And likewise, I don't think I'd like a slow dance with lead that stronger than needed

    IMO the problem occurs when the partners don't match each other!
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  24. #17
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    A clear lead for me is an invitation
    I think alot depends on the philosophy of the leader.

    If a leader feels that he has to direct every step or movement of the follower it does not matter if it is strong or light lead an experienced follower is not going to like it. I would say this is not an invitation.

    I would say an invitation is where the leader shows the follower the direction he wants to go and then allows whats inside her to do the rest and maybe emphesises what she is doing by givng a bit of support or momentum where he feels it is neccessay. Then I think the whole idea of a strong or light lead relates to the amount of support he feels he needs to give each time.

  25. #18
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    When dancing to faster music, one 'needs' more tension in the frame, in order to be able to react quickly and the partnership relys more on being able to match tention and weight and this way we feel balanced and safe. This might be discribing a 'strong lead'?
    I think there's a danger here. At higher tempos, I find that that extra tension will occur quite naturally - the forces (tension / compression) between dancers at higher tempos will be greater purely because you're moving at higher speeds - so more tension is needed to maintain the frame (unless you just allow it to collapse, which is obviously not the greatest of plans)

    But.

    A very common side-effect of that, and of dancing faster in general, is for dancers to tense up. If one does that, it makes it far harder to move well, and it makes it far harder to 'listen' to your partner (and hence connect with them) I think that many rough leads, for example, are a consequence of too much tension - most commonly in the arms - and if one does hold a lot of tension in the arms, it's very difficult to feel that one is being rough in one's leading.

    Myself, I find that the faster I'm dancing, the more it pays to focus on staying as relaxed as possible without sacrificing my frame. That way, I can move far more efficiently, lead much better and more smoothly, and waste a lot less energy doing it.

  26. #19
    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post


    Myself, I find that the faster I'm dancing, the more it pays to focus on staying as relaxed as possible without sacrificing my frame.
    I agree!

    I'm just not very good at explaining stuff in writing!

    And I'd like to add, when dancing with someone who's not a very good lead (of the rough brigade) its better to relax even more and always be ready to collapse your frame completely, when your at risk of being forced the wrong way!
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  27. #20
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    Re: Strong or Light ??

    As always with these debates, I think there's a terminology issue.

    I'm not sure how "Strong" is being used here - does it mean "forceful"?

    Similarly, I'm not sure what "Light" means - does it mean "not much contact"? Fingertip lead, that sort of thing?


    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I think it's not a question of being a strong or light lead, what's more important for me is being lead properly, which can be done light, strong or even better, somewhere in the middle.
    The amount of physical energy required to lead is the amount that will provide an effective lead. That energy can be zero; it's perfectly possible to lead and follow a MJ dance, with no physical contact. But where's the fun in that?

    If you provide enough of a pre-lead, in terms of positioning, the lead itself is typically a formaility. If you find you need to provide physical force to lead a move, then either you're leading it wrong or your partner is following it wrong. Either way, the answer is the same - don't lead that move in social dancing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    My experience of leads who get it wrong, but think they are fantastic dancers, in every case, is that they won't be criticised. They see it more as a failing on the followers part if a follower dares to criticise them.
    And don't you forget it, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    As a result of the above I have chosen from the poll that if a lead hurts me, I'll say nothing but not dance with them again.
    Sounds reasonable.

    Also, if they ask "But why won't you dance with me?", it's then reasonable to explain your reasons, honestly, to that person.

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