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Thread: Choosing between AT and WCS

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    Mind you, MJ is still the 'Łber-dance'!
    At the risk of going off-topic.... there is no such thing.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Nowadays, it would be all about the music for me.

    I gave AT a go for quite a while a few years back, just because I wanted to try something new. I got quite into the music in the end (both traditional and nuevo), but that came afterwards.

    I tried Salsa too, but I couldn't stand the music.

    Then I tried Lindy Hop, but this time I already knew that I loved the music and I haven't looked back since!

    I don't mind the music that people seem to do WCS to, but until it inspires me more than the big-band swing of the 20s and 30s (and the modern bands keeping it alive), I can't see me making the effort.

    BTW, I agree with whoever it was that said it's easier to learn 2 styles simoultaneously if they're completely different rather than similar. If they're similar, I'd be worried about getting the 2 mixed up. Obviously it's be easier to learn one at a time, but I can't imagine anyone getting AT & WCS mixed up.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Obviously it's be easier to learn one at a time, but I can't imagine anyone getting AT & WCS mixed up.

    Like some kind of Swing / Tango mashup. Could you imagine. What would you call it? Something cool like SWANGO I reckon


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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Like some kind of Swing / Tango mashup. Could you imagine. What would you call it? Something cool like SWANGO I reckon
    There's a big difference between choosing to change styles and getting it all mixed up because you're learning two at the same time.
    I've seen someone change between Lindy Hop, Balboa, Foxtrot and AT in one dance and made it look elegant and seamless.

    Apparently, Lindy-Hopping to soul and funk is quite a big thing in the states at the moment!
    Maybe I'll give it a try at S'funk tonight

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Hmmmm...

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    David you forgot the 'snooty' thing exists in Tango too
    Well, it does, but it doesn't transfer over to MJ - Tango is snooty within it's own environment, but less so for MJ-ers doing Tango.

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    Tango

    The dance, the etiquette, the people, the music are completely and uttterly differant to MJ but some of the technique may transfer to MJ

    WCS

    I have only done a few WCS classes but the dance, the etiquette, the people, the music seem vaguely similar to MJ
    Yes - I think there's a wide feeling that WCS is the natural "next step" for MJers (which of course, explains the "snooty" thing).

    It's not, of course, it's simply another dance form.

    But it highlights the initial problem that people like Jivelad are encountering - there's nowhere for him to develop his Modern Jive, because, by and large and with honourable exceptions, the people running Modern Jive venues don't care about developing their dancers past a certain level.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    But it highlights the initial problem that people like Jivelad are encountering - there's nowhere for him to develop his Modern Jive, because, by and large and with honourable exceptions, the people running Modern Jive venues don't care about developing their dancers past a certain level.
    Two reasons why I started WCS; ^^^that^^^ was one of them, - the other was the music.

    I've had to back away from MJ as it was confusing me to do both, i've been WCSing for about 7 months now, I am starting to feel more comfortable with it, - still got a very long way to go, - but, I think I am going to dip my goes into AT at some point in the coming months, see how I go, - then after that, it all depends on what life throws at me (job wise) & how much time I can spend on both.

    I'm not big on Tango music, but I dont know a lot about it, so maybe it will grow on me. I have always loved the sounds of violins though !

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveLad View Post
    - limited number of 'things' to remember
    ^^^ Is another + reason why I reckon I could do both side by side

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    [QUOTE=Gav;580838]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    There's a big difference between choosing to change styles and getting it all mixed up because you're learning two at the same time.

    I know what you mean, just couldn't resist

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post


    But it highlights the initial problem that people like Jivelad are encountering - there's nowhere for him to develop his Modern Jive, because, by and large and with honourable exceptions, the people running Modern Jive venues don't care about developing their dancers past a certain level.
    Well IJig run an advance Jive class every week, I have tried this as a lead and they are quite challenging (well to me)

    I have also notice some advance workshops advertised for drops, style and street influence. There are normally some advance workshops on weekenders that all help improve your ability and MJ evolves there must always be room for improving.

    I have attempted to learn WCS, Salsa and Tango at various times and none are easy but then it would not be a challenge if it was too easy. The hardest part of learning a new style is accepting that you are a beginner again but once you come to terms with that the learning can start.

    At the moment I am doing Tango at IJig which has the benefit of being able to go into the main room and actually dance with confidence my MJ afterwards but that probably isnít helping my progression as much as if I just stuck out the whole evening with Tango but itís a lot more fun. I am also going to give DBís Tango improvers workshop a go this weekend .

    I would like to give WCS lessons a go as well again, but itís just finding the time to fit it all in. the benefit of WCS is that you can usually practice in the main room as well.

    As for salsa have said good bye as the music drove me insane, even worse than the acquired taste music of Tango Ė but I love neo tango


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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Well IJig run an advance Jive class every week,
    Surbiton also run advance classes, but hardly any technique is taught, - just more complicated MOVES. Actually thinking on it, many of the moves taught were just bog standard intermediate ones with double instead of single spins thrown in.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    Surbiton also run advance classes, but hardly any technique is taught, - just more complicated MOVES. Actually thinking on it, many of the moves taught were just bog standard intermediate ones with double instead of single spins thrown in.
    I've never done an Advanced Modern Jive class.

    I've done plenty of classes which were "billed" as Advanced, but yes, they were simply more and more moves. The closest I found was a lead-and-follow masterclass from Franck at Southport a few years ago.

    Caveat: I've not done the iJig class, however, that may be different.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    Maybe I'll give it a try at S'funk tonigh.
    Oh, please, please do. I could do with a laugh.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Oh, please, please do. I could do with a laugh.
    If I do, it'll be with you

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I've never done an Advanced Modern Jive class.
    I've done quite a few advanced workshops and classes and most of them simple aren't.

    The majority of advanced workshops and classes I've been to teach what I would call slightly tricky intermediate moves and they tend to go a little faster. But they do relatively little to make someone a much better dancer - which is surely the point of an advanced class. If I walk out of a class and haven't been challenged at all, then it tells me that it wasn't particularly advanced.

    There are a number of reasons for this - which I won't go into detail now. But in general, it's because of both the willingness or ability of the teachers and the average ability of the students. I find it most frustrating when you have a workshop billed as advanced, taught by a very good teacher, but attended by predominantly intermediate dancers, which brings the standard down.

    There are some clear exceptions to this. The one I'm most familiar with are Simon and Nicole who do genuine advanced classes. There are others but, as you say, finding MJ taught at a genuinely advanced level is unfortunately rare.

    As for AT or WCS... figure it out for yourself. Go to a few classes for each and see which one grabs you more. Everyone's different and every venue is different, so it's going to be really personal as to which one you connect with. Take into account everything - the people, the venues, the music, and how you feel doing the dance - then make a call.

    I would avoid starting both at the same time. You can do it, but it's not easy. To dance well, you really need to think/feel the dance. Each dance has a different mood and when you're learning, it's really easy to get them confused. This mood links in everything: the technique, the music, the etiquette, and so on. Once you know one well, that's much less likely. But when you're still figuring it out, it's best not to muddle yourself up.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Minnie M View Post
    BTW I dislike Salsa music too.
    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    That's what would sell it to me. If you want to keep it up you want to enjoy it, and if you don't like the music then you probably won't enjoy everything else.

    That's why you'll never find me near a salsa night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Im planning on learning some basic tango at some point but I think the music would do my head in after a few weeks. I couldn't get on with Salsa, lindy and to some extent MJ because of that too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I tried Salsa too, but I couldn't stand the music.
    Salsa is actually quite a flexible dance in terms of music. Cowbells aren't compulsory, to prove it here's a few alternative tracks that work well with Salsa.






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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    Salsa is actually quite a flexible dance in terms of music. Cowbells aren't compulsory, to prove it here's a few alternative tracks that work well with Salsa.
    Totally agree that it can be done to 'non - salsa style' tracks. Just how many times do you hear them at a salsa night?? (maybe it's just the ones I have been to )

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Well, it does, but it doesn't transfer over to MJ - Tango is snooty within it's own environment, but less so for MJ-ers doing Tango.

    I think that Jivers coming into tango have done a lot to improve the friendliness of the tango halls. The London events like Lets meet at Negracha are a great idea, and I would imagine that a lot of people would be really intimidated to go to go to Negrachas on an ordinary night.

    The thing is though, in Buenos Aires there was not as much snobbery about tango as there is in the UK. At the Milongas, both the local ones and the famous ones like Salon Canning, people just had a good night out dancing, and they danced tango and took it in their stride. If there had been an interval for a game of bingo I would not have been suprised. They took a break for a bit of Salsa and Jive to break things up. I think the snobbery has come from outside Ba As, but why? I don't know the answer to this


    Thank you Bubble for the tracks which would suit Salsa. I have recently taken up Salsa on a very small scale, and find the music very much the same upbeat and fast all night. There does not seem to be any quieter tracks, but that might be the nature of the beast in Salsa and it being a party almost carnival dance. There was a lot of Jazz played which people tended to prefer to dance on the 2, I being a beginner like to dance on the beat so at this moment I prefer the 1. I did do some Bachata and I found that this was fun because we were in an embrace, I seem to like that better which is why tango will always win for me, but it is nice to try something different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Totally agree that it can be done to 'non - salsa style' tracks. Just how many times do you hear them at a salsa night?? (maybe it's just the ones I have been to )
    I found this too
    if you love the life you live then you'll get a lot more done

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post
    Totally agree that it can be done to 'non - salsa style' tracks. Just how many times do you hear them at a salsa night?? (maybe it's just the ones I have been to )
    It really depends on the venue, the 'purists' won't be having any of it, other people will play maybe 4-5 in an evening. Obviously if you don't like Salsa music that's not a good balance.

    It also depends on what you define as Salsa music. The Youtube videos below probably don't qualify as 'real' Salsa music, but I love dancing Salsa to all of them and have heard them played at Salsa venues.







    I should also mention that I have been dancing in muggles venues for years, there's one particular bar which has live music every week, no entry charge, I can go with a partner and dance MJ, Salsa and Lindyhop all night. Quite a lot of music is eight beat so I'm really more interested in dancing whatever suits the music rather than only dancing Salsa to Salsa music, MJ to pop music, and Lindyhop to swing music.

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Yes salsa music does depend on venue. Personally I like it to be either one extreme or the other. By which I mean either R&B type music or the hard driving Cuban style tunes. What I hate is the plasticized salsa pop you get in between. Sadly that's the norm in many of the clubs.

    But to get back on topic ..

    I'm probably going to have a go at WCS in January. My outside impressions? That it looks a really smooth elegant dance. Goes well with smooth bluesy tracks too. I also like the fact that people talking about WCS always talk about lead and connection.

    I've been doing AT for 9 years now so I could tell you why I enjoy that dance. But I think I'll wait until I've tried both..

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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jack View Post

    I'm probably going to have a go at WCS in January. My outside impressions? That it looks a really smooth elegant dance. Goes well with smooth bluesy tracks too. I also like the fact that people talking about WCS always talk about lead and connection.

    I've been doing AT for 9 years now so I could tell you why I enjoy that dance. But I think I'll wait until I've tried both..
    Look forward to hearing your views Captain Jack
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    Re: Choosing between AT and WCS

    Quote Originally Posted by rubyred View Post
    Look forward to hearing your views Captain Jack
    Thanks Ruby . How do you find the general level of AT at the MJ weekenders - as compared to Tango only events ?

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