Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 47

Thread: beginners lessons

  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    In a way thats just the thing that rattled my cage.
    At the time,I felt like a button pusher-a juke box in the corner-stick the ipod in and retire to the bar.
    I wanted to be more than that.

  2. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    . If you can't find tracks that fit this criteria you need to question if you should be doing the role in the first place.
    What and waste all the time,energy and expense I have gone to.

  3. #23
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    In a way thats just the thing that rattled my cage.
    At the time,I felt like a button pusher-a juke box in the corner-stick the ipod in and retire to the bar.
    I wanted to be more than that.
    Im afraid that that wont really happen, not unless you can create a niche for yourself like Rocky has.

    Most Ceroc and indy DJ's will play the same stuff as other dj's because it's what works for the club and business.

    The only options are to stick it out, create a name for yourself then create your own niche or stop dj'ing for jive and move in to wcs or private mobile/club DJ'ing.

    With either option you will still have to play songs for the crowd you are playing to rather than what you want to hear.

    If you realy want to play exactly what you want, put a pair of headphones on.

  4. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Crewe, Cheshire
    Posts
    1,681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: beginners lessons

    As far I'm I'm concered,

    Music - don't play stuff with lyrics as it interupts/outsounds the teachers voice.

    Leaders - learn to lead the moves more efficiently with time to play/style.

    Follows - should not be interested in moves taught, just how to follow!!

    That may current take on a bigenners lesson after so many years.

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Crewe, Cheshire
    Posts
    1,681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: beginners lessons

    Do any other leads start leading things not being specifically taught in the beginners lesson to see if follows are following and not just going through their half of the motions or is that just me?

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    346
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Do any other leads start leading things not being specifically taught in the beginners lesson to see if follows are following and not just going through their half of the motions or is that just me?
    That's a whole other topic. In short, yes

    If my partner is anticipating, I wont change the lead but I will change the pacing - either lead quicker than the teacher, so she has to follow me not the verbal lead from the teacher, or just stand statuesque while she spins by herself (then raise an eyebrow at her, smile nicely and carry on as though nothing happened).

    If I'm just bored with the lesson and I know my partner and she's a good dancer and there aren't beginners either side of me and I don't think the teacher's watching and we're repeating a move for the n'th time then I'll sometimes lead a variant - adding a turn to a step-across, spinning out of a basket, adding a second turn or even just sticking an entirely new move onto the end of the 2-3 beginner moves we're meant to be doing.

    I know, it's naughty and I shouldn't do it. Still, it's far less common than me just leading the wrong move entirely by mistake - happened tonight, where we were meant to catch a spin with the right hand, then transfer to the left during the return. I kept catching with the left hand in the first place (out of pure instinct); most partners didn't notice but a couple got confused that I didn't subsequently switch hands.

    Worse are the times I forget it's a "first move pushspin" and lead a turn, or the time I led a (nice, interesting and elegant, but sadly inappropriate) intermediate exit from a basket because I'd started dancing to the music and not the teacher's instructions.. Those are the moments you really appreciate a good follower

  7. #27
    Registered User daveb9000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    160
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: beginners lessons

    I too adjust the pacing if I can feel that the follower is just walking through the move themselves. Usually, just one long pause is enough to remind them that I'm leading. I always try to do it in a light-hearted way though and smile.

  8. #28
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    I agree with DB. You're just a button pusher, get on with it and stop whining.
    Blimey, even I wouldn't be that blunt.

    But to be honest, I don't really think the DJ role is that important during an MJ class. You simply need to provide something simple and familiar, with a strong and clear beat to move to.

    And you really don't want to get creative with the music during the class. Students are trying to focus on the steps. If you give them complex music to think about, you're just making it more difficult for them to learn.

  9. #29
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    In a way thats just the thing that rattled my cage.
    At the time,I felt like a button pusher-a juke box in the corner-stick the ipod in and retire to the bar.
    I wanted to be more than that.
    I stongly suspect you're never going to get more than that in a class - and your options generally in a class night, even in the freestyle, are also going to be limited. Probably more so in Ceroc than in most independent MJ venues, admittedly.

    If you want to develop your own "DJ identity", I think you'll have a real problem doing that within the Ceroc world. I can't think of any "DJ names" who developed as such purely within Ceroc. And most of the "DJ names" are independent anyway.

  10. #30
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Northeastern Parts
    Posts
    5,221
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven666 View Post
    Do any other leads start leading things not being specifically taught in the beginners lesson to see if follows are following and not just going through their half of the motions or is that just me?
    No. Never - it's not my role in a class. Unless I'm teaching it.

    I might, on the other hand, lead things not specifically being taught in a higher-level class or workshop, to test how well I'm leading.

  11. #31
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Typical class night.About 80/100 people possibly 10/12 true beginners.The rest are all seasoned MJivers with about 5 years dancing under their belts.

    With about;I believe;20 core beginners moves these seasoned vets have been taught these moves every week,sometimes 2 maybe 3 times a week,for the last 3/4/5 years.
    Why then do they still have to be taught these same moves with explanations of every twist and turn
    Firstly, I have to say that a beginners lesson is where beginners learn to dance. It's far better that those complete dance virgins gain their experience in the arms of people who can already dance.

    I aim my beginners lessons at the level of someone who has just walked in the door and has never danced a step. They need to be told every twist and turn because they have not been told before - it's all new to them. Aiming the lessons at a higher level will make the complete beginner feel hopeless.

    I have a question for DJTrev. Where will the beginner learn to dance at our classes if we do not aim our beginners lessons at the complete beginner?

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    of course they carry on doing beginner moves to tracks that they 'couldn't' dance to in the lesson.
    They couldn't dance at that speed in the lesson because they were learning the moves. You need to start of slow, get the mechanics of the move right and then build up the speed once they can do the move slowly. By the time they get to the freestyle they should be able to do the move to faster music if the lesson was any good. But they wouldn't have been able to do the move if they did it to fast music during the lesson.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Why not take the small number of true beginners to wherever you have the refresher class and let the intermediate(?) have longer freestyle before the intermediate lesson.
    The first freestyle after the beginners lesson is really important to the lesson/social balance of the evening. If it was a lesson, followed by a lesson, the beginner would find themselves outside the social loop until after the intermediate lesson. And the DJ would then have to extend the time they play beginner friendly tracks in the second freestyle.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    and also,as a dj,I have to play the right track,not too fast,not too slow,preferably one the teacher recognises,if its new,dont play too many
    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    but now that I have got my foot in the door of Ceroc,the music for beginners lessons and to a lesser extent that of the intermediate lesson seems to have taken on such an importance that I find myself actually as nervous as hell before a class.That cant be right.
    There is an assuption here that the DJ should select and play the music during the lesson. I challenge that assumption. Firstly, the teacher is supposed to be controlling the lesson. They should also select the music for that lesson as it is an intrinsic part of the lesson.

    And then there's the "button pressing" part of the DJs work in the lesson. I've done it a few times and it's surprisingly difficult! You sit there, keeping still so as not to distract the class from the lesson and your mind drifts. The first time the teacher says "let's try that to music" it takes you a moment to come back to yourself and realise you need to do something. And that something is the menial job of pressing a button.

    So long as the equipment is on the stage with the teacher he/she will be able to press that button and do it at least as quickly as the DJ.

    You really do not need a DJ for the lessons, they're just a distraction and you definitely don't want them choosing the lesson music as they sometimes play music that's not right for your teaching.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    when you go into freestyle,freedom reigns and you can play anything
    It's great to have a good DJ who is dedicated to the freestyle. In an ideal world every venue would have one.

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    [QUOTE=Lee Bartholomew;579991]Im afraid that that wont really happen, not unless you can create a niche for yourself like Rocky has.

    Most Ceroc and indy DJ's will play the same stuff as other dj's because it's what works for the club and business.

    The only options are to stick it out, create a name for yourself then create your own niche or stop dj'ing for jive and move in to wcs or private mobile/club DJ'ing.

    With either option you will still have to play songs for the crowd you are playing to rather than what you want to hear.
    QUOTE]

    It's not about creating a niche,it's about creating and maintaining a local reputation as someone who can and does deliver a good nights music.The idea of being a button pushing/ipod playing dj doesn't appeal.
    If you struggle to cope with the demands of a MJ night I am sure that it would be equally difficult to achieve any measure of success at any other form of social dj'ing.

  13. #33
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Hastings
    Posts
    4,386
    Blog Entries
    2
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post

    It's not about creating a niche,it's about creating and maintaining a local reputation as someone who can and does deliver a good nights music.The idea of being a button pushing/ipod playing dj doesn't appeal.
    If you struggle to cope with the demands of a MJ night I am sure that it would be equally difficult to achieve any measure of success at any other form of social dj'ing.
    Thats kind of what im saying.

    What you are refering to as someone who delivers "a good nights music" is what others would call "a good DJ".

    Music is a matter of opinion. What I like in a jive evening music wise, might not be what others like.

    Infact some of the songs I can't stand fill floors, but thats what it's all about, filling floors, not keeping me as 1 person in a room of 100 happy.

    Good DJ'ing is about experiance and seeing what songs do well in what venue.

    Beginners tracks should have an easy beat for beginners to hear and should be minus breaks.

    A good DJ is not just there to press buttons, they are as important as the taxi dancers and teachers in the role of the business. A good DJ will bring people back through the doors. A bad one will kill the venue

    I personally think beginners tracks should be something that is heard on the radio or TV alot too (either a recent song or a classic) as this helps beginners associate that song with their nights dancing when they hear it during the week and helps get them back through the door.

  14. #34
    Registered User emmylou25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Banbury
    Posts
    554
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Bartholomew View Post

    I personally think beginners tracks should be something that is heard on the radio or TV alot too (either a recent song or a classic) as this helps beginners associate that song with their nights dancing when they hear it during the week and helps get them back through the door.
    I agree with this. I think as a beginner often you're concentrating so much on the moves that you don't really need anything in the music that's going to worry you. If you 'know' the track, it'll be easier to go along with in the background, rather than having to concentrate on the music, beat, moves and everything else.

    Even in some intermediate classes there are people who need really 'easy' tracks to dance to (probably because they don't listen and just do their own thing) in some of the venues I go to.

    I've been at one venue where the DJ's fairly new - he plays great stuff (mix of classics/chart stuff as well as some more unusual things) during the freestyles, but when I only recognise 1 track across both the beginners & intermediate class music (after dancing for 3+ years), I wonder how the beginners cope. Mostly confused and not dancing anywhere near the beat as far as I could see.
    Last edited by emmylou25; 29th-September-2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Added example

  15. #35
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post

    There is an assuption here that the DJ should select and play the music during the lesson. I challenge that assumption. Firstly, the teacher is supposed to be controlling the lesson. They should also select the music for that lesson as it is an intrinsic part of the lesson.

    ....snip.....

    You really do not need a DJ for the lessons, they're just a distraction and you definitely don't want them choosing the lesson music as they sometimes play music that's not right for your teaching.

    That's the way we do it at my local venue as well, and it works perfectly well. I expect from a buisiness perspective it works better as well as you don't need to pay a "proper" DJ to sit on their backsides twidling their thumbs for most of an hour.

  16. #36
    Ceroc Teacher
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Thames Valley
    Posts
    50
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    Most people that attend a lesson for the first time feel a little exposed.

    Its the job of the teacher and the DJ to help the individual relax and enjoy the class. The class should be fun and relaxed, the music should be familiar to the individual and a sensible tempo.

    The last thing a new joiner needs is lots of "experts" giving their views on how to be led or followed. Generally they want to listen to the teacher which is why they spend a lot of time looking at the teacher.

    At the end of the day we want new people to come back because they have had a relaxed, fun and friendly night out. Once they do come back relaxed with a little more confidence thats when the learning really begins.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    1,324
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post

    That's the way we do it at my local venue as well, and it works perfectly well. I expect from a buisiness perspective it works better as well as you don't need to pay a "proper" DJ to sit on their backsides twidling their thumbs for most of an hour.
    Going off at a slight tangent here but as a dj,whose cd's and play-out equipment will the teacher be using while I sit on my backside waiting for the lesson to finish.
    From a 'business perspective' it doesn't pay me to allow my equipment to be used without getting paid for it.It is my only form of income.
    As I am being employed for the night why not tell me what you want playing and leave me to it.
    As far as being a distraction.Do leave off

  18. #38
    Registered User NZ Monkey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    1,109
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Going off at a slight tangent here but as a dj,whose cd's and play-out equipment will the teacher be using while I sit on my backside waiting for the lesson to finish.
    As far as my local venue goes, the studio has a sound system of its own and the teachers use either their own iPods or laptops, or can use a studio iPod that already has pre-selected playlists on it. To the best of my knowledge, everyone chooses to use their own iPod or laptop.

    If you were working out of a local community hall without a suitable sound system that might not be the case of course, and whether the franchise owners choose to purchase their own gear or sub-contract for it is entirely dependent on their situation.

    From a 'business perspective' it doesn't pay me to allow my equipment to be used without getting paid for it. It is my only form of income.
    As I am being employed for the night why not tell me what you want playing and leave me to it.
    As far as being a distraction. Do leave off
    The "business perspective" I was referring to was that of the franchisee owner, not the DJ. Obviously.

    If the teachers already know what they want you to play, why hire a DJ at all (assuming they don’t need your gear)? Making a short playlist isn’t exactly a back-breaking exercise if you already have such a clear vision of what you want.

    Granted you have more of an argument when you're talking about the whole evening, (i.e. freestyle)....... but we're not discussing that.

  19. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    South
    Posts
    5,424
    Blog Entries
    22
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    Even in some intermediate classes there are people who need really 'easy' tracks to dance to (probably because they don't listen and just do their own thing) in some of the venues I go to.
    I would say that "easy", familiar music is just as important in an intermediate class as in beginners. Do all you leaders out there remember when you first ventured into an intermediate class? I remember how it was like being a beginner again and if the music had been hard work too, I might not have been able to manage it at all.
    If people really don't listen and just do their own thing, I'd suggest that it doesn't matter what music you play for them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Do leave off
    I haven't heard that since I was a teenager!

  20. #40
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: beginners lessons

    Quote Originally Posted by Gav View Post
    I haven't heard that since I was a teenager!
    Perhaps that's the usual reaction to one of djtrev's sets?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Lessons - Should it always be beginner/Intermediate?
    By rtwwpad in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 3rd-September-2009, 04:51 PM
  2. Beginners, Intermediate, Advanced
    By Pingu@thesushibar in forum Intermediate Corner
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 30th-August-2009, 12:32 AM
  3. Private Lessons Dance Teacher Scam - Beware!
    By Nigel Toast in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 20th-July-2009, 12:42 PM
  4. Help on Leroc Beginners moves
    By DD+ in forum Intermediate Corner
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 6th-April-2009, 12:58 PM
  5. Aylesbury Beginners only
    By stewart38 in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 28th-April-2006, 01:45 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •