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Thread: Blues Baby Blues

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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Which would you call what Rocky and Val, Dale and Sarah dance?
    Clothed sex? Only kidding!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Well US style is more pulse, pulse - pulse, pulse - whereas what we do is sway and sway. There is a lot of similarity in the moves that are used between the two styles but there's no question that the US style has a vintage look about it which suits the Lindy crowd, whereas what we do has a more modern look which suits the MJ crowd.

    Neither's right or wrong, they're just different.
    I do believe there's more of an 'intimate' feeling with the UK style and it can sometimes be very understated for the onlooker, whereas, from what I've seen of the US style, it has bigger movements, which are more obvious to an audience.
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Clothed sex? Only kidding!


    I do believe there's more of an 'intimate' feeling with the UK style and it can sometimes be very understated for the onlooker, whereas, from what I've seen of the US style, it has bigger movements, which are more obvious to an audience.
    Well yes, although from what I understand Lucky can close dance blues with the best of them..

    From what I've seen of the teaching of US Blues from You tube clips and from some performances there is more in the way of self expression being taught - which I don't think sits terribly comfortably with our reserved British nature. In my personal opinion, although I can appreciate the dancing and the technique involved I find it a bit embarrasing to watch, not because it's overtly sexual, but because people 'cutting loose' rarely look attractive in their movement. Give me micro blues any night of the week...

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Like a domestic?
    Yes, but one where there's music and the drama rises and falls with the backing music.

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Here's an example of what I was talking about. There's no question that Joe & Nelle are at the top of their game - but can you imagine how the way they move might be interpreted by dancers who are less talented...?

    It's a great dance, but there's lots of aspects of the physicality of it that I just don't connect with at all - but it's definitely got a vintage look to it and that of course appeals to some people and not to others.


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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I find it a bit embarrasing to watch, not because it's overtly sexual, but because people 'cutting loose' rarely look attractive in their movement. Give me micro blues any night of the week...
    I know exactly what you mean and I agree.
    And in fact, I'd go as far as to say, its the opposite of what I'd personally called 'sexy', as its a bit self indulgent. making for cringe-worthy viewing.
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    Forum Bombshell - Our Queen! Lory's Avatar
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post

    Actually I like that!

    I'll try and find an example of what I don't like!
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Actually I like that!
    Well, yes I do too, and as an demostration of period dancing it is very good - although I can't help seeing an old Felix the cat black and white cartoon playing whilst I watch some of the movement and hear the music!

    My point is really that I remember when I first started dancing going to a US style Blues based workshop and that kind of 'self expression' through movement was the basis of what was being taught (and still is as far as I know) And the trouble with that is that most people look just plain ridicolous trying to emulate it..

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Actually I like that!

    I'll try and find an example of what I don't like!
    Myself, I'm not so keen on it. It's a wonderful piece of dancing, but leaves me cold.

    iirc, you weren't so keen on when I last posted it.... (I think that was you...)

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Fair point. I suppose my original point is that it shouldn't be called 'Lindy Blues' - 'US Blues', would probably be a far better description for this board's purposes...
    Sounds reasonable.

    Although I'm tempted to suggest "Provisional Blues", "Real Blues" and "Continuity Blues". But I won't, Because That Would Be Naughty.

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Myself, I'm not so keen on it. It's a wonderful piece of dancing, but leaves me cold.

    iirc, you weren't so keen on when I last posted it.... (I think that was you...)
    Yeah, there's something slightly 'ungainly' about it! Maybe its routed from my old ballet teacher drumming into me.. "you must finish your lines properly.... point your toes and stretch your fingers etc" and I think here, its the odd little skip and awkward lines, that ruin what otherwise is a lovely dance

    But, that isn't the essence of what I don't really like..

    Its more what Rocky said, its when people are too overly expressive but don't have the natural ability to carry off the movements, even though they might be feeling it.

    Here's a bit of an example of what I don't like, but its still not a perfect example.
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    It is brilliant to see and would be great to be able to replicate that style and performance but in reality that sort of performance can only be done in the right enviroment and circumstances ie where like minded people are attending.
    Somehow it wouldnt exactly go down in quite the same way at your company xmas dinner dance.
    On the other hand MJ and MJ Blues or at least my interpretation of it doesnt quite look so out of place.


    Just as a footnote-How I hate those whoops and shouts so indicative of Americans and sadly creeping in this side of the Atlantic

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by djtrev View Post
    Just as a footnote-How I hate those whoops and shouts so indicative of Americans and sadly creeping in this side of the Atlantic
    As a side-track from your footnote, it's done a lot more than creep

    I was persuaded last year to go to the Britain's Got Talent touring show when it hit Newcastle. It is no exaggeration to say that I could barely hear Susan Boyle sing over the cacaphony of screaming that erupted from the audience the instant she opened her mouth... and the same went for virtually all the acts, at least to some degree. No-one was interested in sitting, watching and enjoying any of the acts. They just seemed to want to be there and scream a lot.

    I can honestly say that I don't get it.

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Believe it or not, I don't think I've ever (knowingly) seen them dance. Is there a Youtube link around?
    Although several Lindy derived clips have been posted it doesn't appear that we can oblige (refering to videos of Rocky and Val or Dale and Sarah dancing Blues).

    You may already have seen them, but the following two clips are interesting. They feature Nigel and Nina who are widely credited with playing a major role, if not the major role, in introducing a form of Blues dancing to a modern Jive audience. I believe they had quite an illustrious background in Lindy before entering the MJ scene. The first has a very obvious Lindy derived look about it in both dress and dance styling. Equally evident is the MJ look and feel in the second clip which features many standard MJ moves, but performed with a style and polish which is not standard. (Though Nigel can't quite let go the Lindy dress sense.) The 'sway, sway, sway' of which Rocky speaks is also evident - a horizontal rather than vertical accent? Even if most of us can't quite match that polish, this is the type of MJ Blues we seek to attain.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/Billyler...32/TEgNjAKwDlA


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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    Although several Lindy derived clips have been posted it doesn't appear that we can oblige (refering to videos of Rocky and Val or Dale and Sarah dancing Blues).

    You may already have seen them, but the following two clips are interesting. They feature Nigel and Nina who are widely credited with playing a major role, if not the major role, in introducing a form of Blues dancing to a modern Jive audience. I believe they had quite an illustrious background in Lindy before entering the MJ scene.
    They were indeed amongst those who introduced blues to the MJ scene (quite likely the first - although I have a feeling Simon Selmon was starting to teach blues around the same time - Nigel having been inspired by the Herrang blues nights. I actually had my first blues lessons from them. Slight correction though - Nina, to my knowledge, began MJ before beginning Lindy - her original dance background is in ballet, which carries across in a lot of her dancing (watch her at the beginning of the first clip)

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    The first has a very obvious Lindy derived look about it in both dress and dance styling. Equally evident is the MJ look and feel in the second clip which features many standard MJ moves, but performed with a style and polish which is not standard. (Though Nigel can't quite let go the Lindy dress sense.) The 'sway, sway, sway' of which Rocky speaks is also evident - a horizontal rather than vertical accent? Even if most of us can't quite match that polish, this is the type of MJ Blues we seek to attain.
    I think the first clip is their Mask competition routine from waaaaay back when - which would explain the yellow zoot suit.

    Personally, I wouldn't see either the Business of Love segment of the first, or the Sweat routine to be full-blown blues - more akin to slow MJ with lifts and a few nice bluesy moves. Albeit extremely slick and polished, as you say.

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't see either the Business of Love segment of the first, or the Sweat routine to be full-blown blues - more akin to slow MJ with lifts and a few nice bluesy moves. Albeit extremely slick and polished, as you say.
    Personally, any totally choreographed routine, is in conflict with my idea of the essence of Blues dancing.

    Or am I just being really difficult?
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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Personally, any totally choreographed routine, is in conflict with my idea of the essence of Blues dancing.

    Or am I just being really difficult?
    Yes.

    But that's the prerogative of a beautiful lady - and you're right too !

    (Had to check my spelling there - right first time.)

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    They were indeed amongst those who introduced blues to the MJ scene (quite likely the first - although I have a feeling Simon Selmon was starting to teach blues around the same time - Nigel having been inspired by the Herrang blues nights. I actually had my first blues lessons from them. Slight correction though - Nina, to my knowledge, began MJ before beginning Lindy - her original dance background is in ballet, which carries across in a lot of her dancing (watch her at the beginning of the first clip)
    I've read most of what's been written but was not involved in dance at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    I think the first clip is their Mask competition routine from waaaaay back when - which would explain the yellow zoot suit.
    Shades of the Jive Aces

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    Personally, I wouldn't see either the Business of Love segment of the first, or the Sweat routine to be full-blown blues - more akin to slow MJ with lifts and a few nice bluesy moves. Albeit extremely slick and polished, as you say.
    I did quite specifically call it MJ Blues, which is pretty much as you describe it, though often with a few rather raunchy and overtly sexual manoeuvres thrown in. I'm not sure what you mean by 'full-blown' Blues, but I can imagine it gestating in the right atmosphere - smallish cozy venue with an intimate ambiance, into the small hours, very subdued lighting, flickering candles, drink flowing copiously, a live band playing proper blues, up for it gals in frilly or slinky dresses (ooh, getting quite excited here).

    So I guess I can accept, though from rather limited experience, that most MJ Blues is a bit of a watered down version of what can be experienced. In part that probaby stems from the imperatives of the MJ business model, inertia/resistance at some levels (DJs, organisers), together with the need to 'convert' a pretty conservative clientelle. Blues is a delicate baby.
    Last edited by Whitebeard; 2nd-September-2010 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Comma

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues


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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Personally, any totally choreographed routine, is in conflict with my idea of the essence of Blues dancing.

    Or am I just being really difficult?
    Of course you are.... but I agree with you on this one.

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    Re: Blues Baby Blues

    Quote Originally Posted by Lory View Post
    Personally, any totally choreographed routine, is in conflict with my idea of the essence of Blues dancing.

    Or am I just being really difficult?
    As I understand it, Blues is very much about improvisation to the music - similar to AT in that way, which makes Blues/AT fusions not totally ridiculous.

    So yes, I reckon Blues competitions are about as unnatural as AT competitions.

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