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Thread: Seven is definitely more than three ...

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    Seven is definitely more than three ...

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    It isn't necessary to be world champion or to have a degree in the subject or even be able to walk, in order to point out something simple.
    The new Kia ad sums it up for me.

    There are people who will tell you the most obvious and simple things as if they were the result of the greatest thinking on the planet. This tells you something about their thinking ability.

    We should take care not to patronise those of little mind who find great thinking where there is none. But we should reserve our pity for those who don't even understand the most simple things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I'm sorry, is it just me or does anyone ever have the foggiest idea of what Fro-doh is talking about??

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    Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    In the story of "The Emperors new clothes" it took a child to point out the obvious, the Emperor was naked.
    I think the best bit of this story is the smoke and mirrors of the trickster who sold the idea that you were thick if you didn't see the clothes.

    I'm afraid that I find there is a similar thing going on in dances that are meant to be social dances. There is a mind-set that you can't be a good dancer if you can't do dance X, Y or Z. This will fool the simple minded and less than simple but gullible if it's said with enough confidence and associated glamour.

    The simple truth is that we are social dancers through and through if we are attending Modern Jive events. Being "special" or knowing a "special" dance that others in the Modern Jive scene do not know does not mark you out "special" or superior, it makes you anti-social because it excludes people in a social setting.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I think the best bit of this story is the smoke and mirrors of the trickster who sold the idea that you were thick if you didn't see the clothes.

    I'm afraid that I find there is a similar thing going on in dances that are meant to be social dances. There is a mind-set that you can't be a good dancer if you can't do dance X, Y or Z. This will fool the simple minded and less than simple but gullible if it's said with enough confidence and associated glamour.

    The simple truth is that we are social dancers through and through if we are attending Modern Jive events. Being "special" or knowing a "special" dance that others in the Modern Jive scene do not know does not mark you out "special" or superior, it makes you anti-social because it excludes people in a social setting.


    I dance with everyone, so am I not special anymore Andy

    thats my bubble burst.......and I was going out on such a high, neaver mind, i'll help you with your 'house' 'garage' 'funk' dancing next time I see you, sorry its just free style..



    ps its been ages.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    I dance with everyone, so am I not special anymore Andy
    You are now, of course, special to everyone

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    thats my bubble burst.......
    Having seen and felt your bubbles, I think they take a lot of bursting

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    and I was going out on such a high, neaver mind, i'll help you with your 'house' 'garage' 'funk' dancing next time I see you, sorry its just free style..
    And I'll help you with your hip-hop.

    Quote Originally Posted by fletch View Post
    ps its been ages.
    Sometimes we find people who we click with and don't have to keep living in each other's pockets to know we'll get along just the same the next time we meet - next year, next week, whatever

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm afraid that I find there is a similar thing going on in dances that are meant to be social dances. There is a mind-set that you can't be a good dancer if you can't do dance X, Y or Z. This will fool the simple minded and less than simple but gullible if it's said with enough confidence and associated glamour.
    If I may offer an alternative interpretation... it may be possible that these people you refer to have simply, through learning these other dances, learned techniques and concepts that have been of immense benefit to themselves, to their own dancing / leading / following... and that they are keen to share those techniques and concepts, in the hopes that they benefit others in a similar fashion.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    If I may offer an alternative interpretation... it may be possible that these people you refer to have simply, through learning these other dances, learned techniques and concepts that have been of immense benefit to themselves, to their own dancing / leading / following... and that they are keen to share those techniques and concepts, in the hopes that they benefit others in a similar fashion.
    Those people straycat describes are called dance teachers.

    The people I'm talking about are the ones who attend MJ events and tell you they've given up MJ now they'd discovered dance X, Y or Z. They make no effort to share their special dance. My answer is that they're in the wrong place.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    [/The simple truth is that we are social dancers through and through if we are attending Modern Jive events. Being "special" or knowing a "special" dance that others in the Modern Jive scene do not know does not mark you out "special" or superior, it makes you anti-social because it excludes people in a social setting.
    Perhaps event organisers should hand out Anti-Social Balboa Orders to discourage this kind of heinous behaviour

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nomoves View Post
    Perhaps event organisers should hand out Anti-Social Balboa Orders to discourage this kind of heinous behaviour
    There is absolutely no reason why consenting adults shouldn't dance Balboa at a MJ event.

    But they shouldn't refuse the request for a dance at a MJ event because they are a Balboa purist and don't dance MJ any more.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Those people straycat describes are called dance teachers.

    The people I'm talking about are the ones who attend MJ events and tell you they've given up MJ now they'd discovered dance X, Y or Z. They make no effort to share their special dance. My answer is that they're in the wrong place.
    Andy
    I am sorry but I think that is a load of rubbish. I think a lot of the major weekenders as an example are bringing in teachers to teach other dance styles. I am no teacher but I think my learning WCS has helped my MJ. Are you saying I am going to the wrong events. I can happily say that I still dance more MJ than I do WCS and I can't really see my self changing.

    I know some dancers that have never learnt MJ but have gone on MJ weekenders to go on the WCS workshops who have said no to a MJ dance because they really don't know how to do it. I also know others who will just give it a try with a smile.

    I really can't make a comment concerning Tango.

    I think and I have seen other dancers who obviously have been ballroom trained who have master MJ quickly and are so much better dancers because of their other dance training.

    Lastly, surely by all these other dancers joining in on the MJ scene they are shairing their dance skills by dancing with others, I am sure there are alot of ladies that will pick up things by following men who lead well because of their dance training

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The people I'm talking about are the ones who attend MJ events and tell you they've given up MJ now they'd discovered dance X, Y or Z. They make no effort to share their special dance. My answer is that they're in the wrong place.
    I now have this vision of an ex-MJer standing by the side of a dancefloor, sneering at the dancers, saying "I now do West Balboa Paso Blues Hop! But I'm not sharing it with you. I'm not even going to show it to you. That's how special it is."

    I'm not certain that's quite what you mean, but it's the picture you're painting....

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    I'm afraid that I find there is a similar thing going on in dances that are meant to be social dances.
    Aren't most dances meant to be social dances?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The simple truth is that we are social dancers through and through if we are attending Modern Jive events. Being "special" or knowing a "special" dance that others in the Modern Jive scene do not know does not mark you out "special" or superior,
    You missed out "with the exception of Argentine Tango, of course" from that sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    it makes you anti-social because it excludes people in a social setting.
    You say that like it's a bad thing?

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    AI think a lot of the major weekenders as an example are bringing in teachers to teach other dance styles.
    And Modern Jive weekenders have always done this - it's not a new trend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    I know some dancers that have never learnt MJ but have gone on MJ weekenders to go on the WCS workshops who have said no to a MJ dance because they really don't know how to do it.
    It seems a bit weird to go to an MJ weekender without knowing anything about MJ.

    Mind you, you may be right, I encountered a lovely tango dancer from France at my last Southport weekender, and she'd come mainly for the WCS classes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    I really can't make a comment concerning Tango.
    I can

    I wouldn't attend a "Tango + other-dance-form-I-don't-know" weekender; especially if the other-dance-form-I-don't-know were the main focus of that weekender. It would seem a massive waste of time and effort.

    But if I did attend such an event, and if I did attend the non-tango freestyle part of that event, then I guess I'd .... I dunno. I simply wouldn't be there in the first place, so it's too hypothetical a question.

    But I'm happy to attend a (for example) MJ / Tango weekender.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    But they shouldn't refuse the request for a dance at a MJ event because they are a Balboa purist and don't dance MJ any more.
    I think it's safe to say that this is an unlikely scenario. I can't see any born-again MJ-shunning Balboa purists actually attending an MJ event....

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    Andy
    I am sorry but I think that is a load of rubbish. I think a lot of the major weekenders as an example are bringing in teachers to teach other dance styles. I am no teacher but I think my learning WCS has helped my MJ. Are you saying I am going to the wrong events. I can happily say that I still dance more MJ than I do WCS and I can't really see my self changing.
    I think Gerry is mis-reading what I've said. I've no problem with people like Gerry. I am also one of those people. I attend classes other than MJ and dance many dances. But I wouldn't attend an event in a dance style I did not know and expect people to dance one of the dances I know - I'd make an effort to learn the appropriate dance.

    But what I am not and Gerry is not is the person I described earlier. That person attends MJ events and does not dance MJ. What's all that about? For some reason Gerry thinks this is OK at MJ events. He and I do not agree on this single point. If I attended a Tango weekender where there was a MJ taster lesson I would still expect to dance tango in the majority of the freestyle. I wouldn't say "I'm sorry, I only dance MJ". But, for some reason, Gerry thinks acting this way is acceptable at an MJ weekender or other MJ event

    I think DB summed it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I wouldn't attend a "Tango + other-dance-form-I-don't-know" weekender; especially if the other-dance-form-I-don't-know were the main focus of that weekender. It would seem a massive waste of time and effort.

    But if I did attend such an event, and if I did attend the non-tango freestyle part of that event, then I guess I'd .... I dunno. I simply wouldn't be there in the first place, so it's too hypothetical a question.

    But I'm happy to attend a (for example) MJ / Tango weekender.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    I now have this vision of an ex-MJer standing by the side of a dancefloor, sneering at the dancers, saying "I now do West Balboa Paso Blues Hop! But I'm not sharing it with you. I'm not even going to show it to you. That's how special it is."

    I'm not certain that's quite what you mean, but it's the picture you're painting....
    That's because it's the picture I occasionally see. These non-MJ dancers seem to make camp together at MJ events. And I get them coming up and requesting all sorts of tracks that are marginal for MJ and would make it a dreary MJ set.
    Last edited by Andy McGregor; 1st-September-2010 at 03:18 PM.

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    Re: Seven is definitely more than three ...

    p.s. I set this thread up to have a dig at Rocky because he was having a dig at frodo. Not to debate non-MJ dancing dancers at MJ events.

    p.p.s. The answer is 7 ...

    .. or possibly 3. It all depends on the question

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    Re: Seven is definitely more than three ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    p.s. I set this thread up to have a dig at Rocky because he was having a dig at frodo. Not to debate non-MJ dancing dancers at MJ events.
    Well - that one went (silently) whooshing straight over my head.....

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    Re: Seven is definitely more than three ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    p.s. I set this thread up to have a dig at Rocky because he was having a dig at frodo.
    Yeah, but that was boring.

    This topic is more fun.

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    associated glamour.
    Is that when they're making it look really good?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The simple truth is that we are social dancers through and through if we are attending Modern Jive events. Being "special" or knowing a "special" dance that others in the Modern Jive scene do not know does not mark you out "special" or superior, it makes you anti-social because it excludes people in a social setting.
    My experience has been that learning other dances creates additional social opportunities. I now have much more choice than when I only danced MJ. If I'm at a MJ event I'll dance what ever I can, with anyone capable, to what ever music is suitable. To me that's inclusive rather than exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Having seen and felt your bubbles, I think they take a lot of bursting
    Please don't prick me, I burst very easily

    Quote Originally Posted by straycat View Post
    If I may offer an alternative interpretation... it may be possible that these people you refer to have simply, through learning these other dances, learned techniques and concepts that have been of immense benefit to themselves, to their own dancing / leading / following... and that they are keen to share those techniques and concepts, in the hopes that they benefit others in a similar fashion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Those people straycat describes are called dance teachers.
    Excellent, by that definition, I'm a dance teacher

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    The people I'm talking about are the ones who attend MJ events and tell you they've given up MJ now they'd discovered dance X, Y or Z. They make no effort to share their special dance. My answer is that they're in the wrong place.
    I've taught plenty of MJivers the Charleston basics, most of them thought it was an absolute scream. I'll happily share with anyone who's interested.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    That person attends MJ events and does not dance MJ. What's all that about?
    If they've paid their money and their activities don't interfere with that of the MJivers then why not? Is it any different from paying to just come in, sit down, have a few drinks and watch?

    Of course, if they are actually capable of dancing MJ, but turn down requests from other MJ dancers, that's just impolite, and snobbish. However, if they genuinely can't dance MJ then just let them be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    That's because it's the picture I occasionally see. These non-MJ dancers seem to make camp together at MJ events. And I get them coming up and requesting all sorts of tracks that are marginal for MJ and would make it a dreary MJ set.

    Why not just tell 'em it's a MJ night? In future put a sign by the door clearly stating the music policy and stick to it. They'll get the message eventually.

    I have on occasions requested swing music, but mainly because I like dancing MJ to swing, rather than because I want to hijack the evening and turn it into a lindyhop event. There are plenty of lindyhop events so I have no need to do that, and hey, guess what, sometimes I dance MJ at lindyhop events, and receive pitying looks from some of the lindyhoppers. Do I care? Not really

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    Re: Answering a simple post in a WCS thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    Excellent, by that definition, I'm a dance teacher
    Yes you are. You've said so yourself
    Quote Originally Posted by Bubble View Post
    I've taught plenty of MJivers the Charleston basics, most of them thought it was an absolute scream. I'll happily share with anyone who's interested.

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