What spoilt last night for you

[Lost Leader]

I noticed that there was quite a lot of negative feedback creeping into the ‘Was last night amazing for you’ and I remember that when Stokie started the thread it was to be a positive feedback thread. So I thought I’d start an alternative place for constructive criticism. If something spoilt what could have otherwise been a fantastic event, for me the terrible floors at Hammersmith made it very difficult to dance to what was very good music and also almost ruined my shoes. Is this down to Ceroc London or was it outside of their remit to ensure the floor was danceable (I know JiveLad has started a thread on that subject – so maybe we will get some answers there), I’m not sure maybe someone could tell me.

One more thing please don’t use this thread to deliberately knock events as I don’t think this is helpful but rather to discuss ways that things could be improved.

Lory please would you move my last post from the Last night Amazing thread to here. thanks

Mod Note The posts below were taken from the Was last night Amazing thread, as this is now a more appropriate thread Lory xx

Sadly, no . Last night's Rugby freestyle was once again far too crowded. Time was when the Rugby free-styles were a firm favourite but they have just become too popular. The only times last night when you could dance with any degree of freedom were before 9:00pm (I managed 20 minutes or so) and another 20 minutes or so during the tea and coffee break. The rest of the time it was frankly silly. Even a great dance with the sublimely talented Chelsea couldn't prevent this from being a not very enjoyable night overall for me.

It pains me to say this because I really do love Rugby and am a great admirer of everything Marc and Rachel have done to build up the venue. It isn't of course their fault - the music is great, the floor is fabulous - Rugby has just become a victim of its own success.

[Lory]

Sadly, no .

Not amazing

Well guys Hammers wasn't amazing either!

It had all the right ingredients, enough space, good music, extention till 2am, free icecreams, sweets and biscuits and a Blues room etc

But when you can't move, cos your feet are stuck to the floor, its simply not enjoyable

By 1am, my shoes had a thick layer of sticky black stuff completely covering the soles, I tried to scrape it off but to no avail, so I decided to call it a night, for fear of damaging my knees or ankles

[Minnie M]

.....But when you can't move, cos your feet are stuck to the floor, its simply not enjoyable............./snip/..........By 1am, my shoes had a thick layer of sticky black stuff completely covering the soles..........

I haven't been to Hammers for years, but do remember that problem - don't understand why for such a popular place the haven't sorted it - or maybe that is the reason why they don't bother

[Lory]

I haven't been to Hammers for years, but do remember that problem - don't understand why for such a popular place the haven't sorted it - or maybe that is the reason why they don't bother

The blues room can be a bit dodgy but I've never know the upstairs to be like this before

[Maxine]

Well guys Hammers wasn't amazing either!

It had all the right ingredients, enough space, good music, extention till 2am, free icecreams, sweets and biscuits and a Blues room etc

But when you can't move, cos your feet are stuck to the floor, its simply not enjoyable

By 1am, my shoes had a thick layer of sticky black stuff completely covering the soles, I tried to scrape it off but to no avail, so I decided to call it a night, for fear of damaging my knees or ankles

I think we need a new thread 'what spoilt last night for you'

The floor was dreadful - my feet and back are really hurting today.

The floor upstairs was replaced about 3 years ago and is normally really fast - I've never known it sticky. It could not have been cleaned before use. The blues room was even worse.

My shoes were covered in a thick black tar like stuff that a brush alone would not get off. I had to scrape them with a sharp knife and then with a stiff bristle brush - not quite as good as new but a great improvement. I'll bring the brush along tonight Lory it's better than the one we tried last night.

Shame because there was some great music and lovely dancers could have been the perfect night

[Lory]

I'll bring the brush along tonight Lory it's better than the one we tried last night.

Thanks Maxine, although I think I might bring some different shoes tonight.

Actually, might bring a selection, as apparently Berko has a new floor in the Blues room

I did hear that stiletto's are completely banned, not that I dance in them anyway but just incase anyone's thinking of bringing their comme il faut's to the practica

[David Bailey]

Actually, might bring a selection, as apparently Berko has a new floor in the Blues room

The new floor was a bit slow, but not too bad - I suspect it'll get better with time.

[FirstMove]

Well guys Hammers wasn't amazing either!

Saturday was my first visit to Hammersmith in about 5 years. Last time I visited it had a pretty fast floor, so this time I brought my least slippy shoes .

I spoke to several men who had bought cheap white shoes especially for the evening, to complete their White Night outfits. I wonder if new (non-dance) shoes deposit varnish and rubber onto the floor.

FM

[whitetiger1518]

The heat at Rutherglen town hall Not much that Franck and Sheena can do about it if it is busy, but the lack of a Blues room was sorely missed .

I think as it is a council building they must store up the heat from our events to heat the building for the next week.. There you go Franck a new marketing ploy - venues save money by investing in the Ceroc Scotland Central Heating System TM (All royalties to me of course )

WT

[Lost Leader]

HMS President (otherwise known as "The Boat") Bank Holiday Monday afternoon 30 May 2011

Caveat - this was my fist ever visit to "the Boat" and conditions were not ideal as it was raining. No doubt when the sun is shining and you can dance on the open decks things are at least a little better.

I'll start with the good points - well, since this is after all a boat it has being a unique venue in its favour. It also has to be said that this particular boat does have a certain, albeit rather faded, elegance and character. It's also one of the few venues I have been too where there are comfortable seating areas sufficiently isolated from the music where you can have a chat and relax. Not only that you also get to eat free tea / coffee and cakes. Not just any old cakes either, but rather nice cakes that seemed to be constantly replenished throughout the afternoon - all very civilised.

So where did it all go horribly wrong then?

(deep breath)

- The floor has to be one of the worst I have ever had to dance on. Horribly sticky with a few rough and uneven patches for good measure and half the floor also has a pronounced slope.

- Ridiculous overcrowding. I'm not just talking busy, I'm talking makes the Southport blues room on a Saturday night around midnight look really spacious. It was so crowded there were at least as many people physically unable to get onto the dance floor as their were actually on it. This made dancing very uncomfortable, highly restricted and at times positively dangerous. Frankly it wasn't an enjoyable experience and with that many people there it never could be for me.

- Abysmal floor-craft. I saw at least 2 couples execute aerials, one of which involved the lady kicking her legs up well above head height and the other turning the lady upside down. Unacceptable on any social dance floor but on one this crowded unbelievably stupid and dangerous

I note that on the web site you are warned to turn up early to avoid disappointment which implies that there is a risk you might be turned away. I would be interested to know if that actually happened on Monday. I suspect not. In any event it is no doubt some sort of fire limit unrelated to the size of the dance floor. Had it not been raining a few couples could have danced on the open deck areas but this would not have made things much better judging by the size of those areas and the fact that they also have tables and chairs on them. The fact is there were way too many people allowed in IMO. Is it usually this overcrowded?

Overall then a pretty disappointing experience and I wont be in any hurry to go back. If you want to have a chat and eat nice cakes fair enough but don't bother if you want any enjoyable dancing.

....and I failed to spot Twirly in the crowd.

[robd]

HMS President (otherwise known as "The Boat")
{stuff}

Agree with pretty much all LL wrote and it echoes my experiences on there the day after the Champs though may have been even worse since bad weather would have prevented outdoor dancing yesterday. Nice to say I have done it once but zero interest in returning.

[David Bailey]

- The floor has to be one of the worst I have ever had to dance on. Horribly sticky with a few rough and uneven patches for good measure and half the floor also has a pronounced slope.

Shrug. It's always like that. And it moves!

- Ridiculous overcrowding. I'm not just talking busy, I'm talking makes the Southport blues room on a Saturday night around midnight look really spacious. It was so crowded there were at least as many people physically unable to get onto the dance floor as their were actually on it. This made dancing very uncomfortable, highly restricted and at times positively dangerous. Frankly it wasn't an enjoyable experience and with that many people there it never could be for me.

Ouch.

- Abysmal floor-craft. I saw at least 2 couples execute aerials, one of which involved the lady kicking her legs up well above head height and the other turning the lady upside down. Unacceptable on any social dance floor but on one this crowded unbelievably stupid and dangerous

Aerials are - quite rightly - banned in Ceroc social dancing, and have been for over 4 years now. As it says on the T&Cs of Ceroc.com:

8. The dancing, learning or practice of aerial moves is strictly forbidden at any Ceroc venue, save for the Ceroc Champs. Please note that this extends to any part of a Ceroc venue including corridors, the car park or private rooms. This rule applies irrespective of who you are dancing with and this includes a regular dance partner. If you are unsure about this rule, please speak with a Ceroc instructor at your local venue, but no exemptions will be granted.

If you see people doing aerials, I encourage you to report this to the organiser. Although I wonder if people were practicing stuff they'd seen at the Champs...

I note that on the web site you are warned to turn up early to avoid disappointment which implies that there is a risk you might be turned away. I would be interested to know if that actually happened on Monday. I suspect not. In any event it is no doubt some sort of fire limit unrelated to the size of the dance floor.

Typically, H&S the "dancing" capacity for a venue is insanely high - for example, the Southport main ballroom is rated as being "2,000 capacity", which is clearly ridiculous.

Overall then a pretty disappointing experience and I wont be in any hurry to go back. If you want to have a chat and eat nice cakes fair enough but don't bother if you want any enjoyable dancing.

To be fair, I think that's pretty much what most people who are used to the venue expect from the boat. It's a venue where you can socialise, gossip, have tea and occasionally dance. It's not really a dance venue.

[Rocky]

Ok, well fortunately the vast majority of our events get positive comments so I'm not saying this because I have an ulterior motive.

I think this is an incredibly negative thread and should be withdrawn. All organizers are struggling at the moment and work very hard to put the nights on that they do. And this is usually backed by the additional hard work put in by the teachers and Dj's.

People's experience can often be coloured by their own state of mind and is an incredibly subjective thing anyway. Creating a thread that just concentrates on people having a whinge is ludicrous IMO.

By all means have a thread that is called 'Reviews of Freestyle Events' as they have on the Southern Jive Forum because people can then talk about the positive AND negative aspects if they want.

Besides that, what is the point?? The thread makes an assumption that the organizers of these events actually read this Forum - and the vast majority don't. If you feel unhappy about an event, or feel that improvements can be made, contact the organizer's direct. If it is a legitimate complaint and then nothing is done about it, then by all means whinge. But you can hardly complain about problems at an event time after time if no-one can be bothered to actually put their complaint in writing to the relevant person.

[Gav]

I think this is an incredibly negative thread and should be withdrawn. All organizers are struggling at the moment and work very hard to put the nights on that they do. And this is usually backed by the additional hard work put in by the teachers and Dj's.

Fair point I guess. I'm not a fan of negativity unless it's backed by genuine issues, but it does appear to be here.

Besides that, what is the point?? The thread makes an assumption that the organizers of these events actually read this Forum - and the vast majority don't.

So if they don't read the forum, where's the harm in having a thread for people to say what they didn't like?

By all means have a thread that is called 'Reviews of Freestyle Events' as they have on the Southern Jive Forum because people can then talk about the positive AND negative aspects if they want.

Or are you just saying that the few organisers that do use the forum are just too lazy to read two threads so we should put it all together for them?

[Rocky]

So if they don't read the forum, where's the harm in having a thread for people to say what they didn't like?

Because if you just talk about someone behind their back without directly raising the issues with them how can you ever hope to resolve any issues that concern you?

Or are you just saying that the few organisers that do use the forum are just too lazy to read two threads so we should put it all together for them?

Fair point I guess. I'm not a fan of negativity unless it's backed by genuine issues, but it does appear to be here.

I think it just better in all things to create an environment of positivity and balance than negativity. People love to moan and if you allow that on a thread devoted to JUST that it will encourage them to moan more.

If there is justification to raise a problem then do the right thing and raise it with the organizer concerned. Doesn't that benefit us all rather than giving a people a forum to moan and whinge without actually doing what they should be doing and addressing it directly with those concerned?

[David Bailey]

I think this is an incredibly negative thread and should be withdrawn.

What, and spoil all the whingeing?

All organizers are struggling at the moment and work very hard to put the nights on that they do.

All the more reason to welcome feedback, surely?

People's experience can often be coloured by their own state of mind and is an incredibly subjective thing anyway. Creating a thread that just concentrates on people having a whinge is ludicrous IMO.

It's a counterpoint to the "What made last night amazing for you" thread.

By all means have a thread that is called 'Reviews of Freestyle Events' as they have on the Southern Jive Forum because people can then talk about the positive AND negative aspects if they want.

Well, that's why we have aftermath threads.

I guess, structurally, we could change it so that we had a "reviews" subforum, or something, but that doesn't seem worthwhile.

Besides that, what is the point?? The thread makes an assumption that the organizers of these events actually read this Forum

No it doesn't - any more than any thread does.

[QUOTE=Rocky;588658]- and the vast majority don't. If you feel unhappy about an event, or feel that improvements can be made, contact the organizer's direct. If it is a legitimate complaint and then nothing is done about it, then by all means whinge. [/quote[
This is a discussion forum. It's for discussion.

But you can hardly complain about problems at an event time after time if no-one can be bothered to actually put their complaint in writing to the relevant person.

So, what, we should never have negative comments about some event if we're not prepared to submit a complaint in the approved manner?

[David Bailey]

I think it just better in all things to create an environment of positivity and balance than negativity.

What have you done with the real Rocky?

If there is justification to raise a problem then do the right thing and raise it with the organizer concerned.

In this specific case, I agree, it should be raised directly - especially the aerials thing, that's dangerous practice. But possibly Lost Leader posted this to see what reactions other people had - i.e. was this just him or a genuine issue.

Doesn't that benefit us all rather than giving a people a forum to moan and whinge without actually doing what they should be doing and addressing it directly with those concerned?

"Should"? It's not up to punters to provide free feedback to organisers as a duty. It's a good idea to do so, but I wouldn't say "should".

[Rocky]

All the more reason to welcome feedback, surely? .

I agree, but when you are concentrating on just negative feedback you're unlikely to get the response you want. It's just a fact of life that the best way to get what you want is to mix positives with negatives - it's called a Good, Bad, Good sandwich and it works!

It's a counterpoint to the "What made last night amazing for you" thread..

Which was started because people got sick of the same old faces just whinging on and on about the same old stuff over and over again.

Well, that's why we have aftermath threads. .

Yes, and by and large they are more balanced - but there isn't a thread for freestyles in general other than the 'amazing' thread.

This is a discussion forum. It's for discussion..

Fine, but shouldn't discussion lead to resolution of issues if enough people are genuinely concerned about them? Wouldn't it be better if the Forum actually had some influence rather than organizers ignoring it exactly for this reason?? Wouldn't you rather feel that you could make a difference with your comments and actions than being ignored because very few people ever follow up on their complaints?

So, what, we should never have negative comments about some event if we're not prepared to submit a complaint in the approved manner?

It depends on whether you actually WANT to achieve anything or not.

What have you done with the real Rocky?.

That's getting a bit tired now isn't it..?

"Should"? It's not up to punters to provide free feedback to organisers as a duty. It's a good idea to do so, but I wouldn't say "should" .

Again, it depends on whether you actually WANT to achieve anything or not, or just want to blow hot air....

[Twirly]

I have to concur with everything LL says, and actually I don’t think he’s being particularly negative. It was rammed. I was on the verge of leaving and asking for my money back But I won’t get a chance to dance much for the next couple of weeks, so resigned myself to it. I talked to several people, and they all complained about the conditions.

LL – the floor on the boat is either sticky (that was the worst I’ve ever seen it), or as slippery as an ice rink. Not only was an announcement made asking people to take care and watch where they were going when dancing, David Bradley was actually sprinkling talc on the floor. I was equally alarmed by those doing aerials – one couple in particular (who didn’t seem to dance with anyone else) did several. There is nothing that Ceroc can do about the sloping floor – it is a quirk of the boat, and one you learn to live with. Just try dancing on it in heels! Due to the weather, you may not have danced outside – the deck is a series of unevenly joined sheets of metal, and highly entertaining to dance on. And, amazingly, I’ve actually seen people do aerials out there too

In terms of having a negative thread, I see where you are coming from Rocky. However, we don’t have a “freestyles reviews thread”. I recently went to a particularly bad freestyle and actually felt bad posting a negative review on the “was last night amazing for you thread”. I think a lovefest thread is just as useless in terms of helping things to improve as a thread full of whinging and negativity. Maybe the title of this thread could be changed to something more even toned by a mod, and realistic rather than either gushing or whinging reviews could be posted here?

As for complaining to the management, well, I wouldn’t have seen the point on Monday. They knew the floor was diabolical. They knew that it was raining, but still packed as many people in as they could, despite one dance area being out of action (actually, some brave/daft souls did dance outside, in the rain – that is how bad the overcrowding was!). As for the aerials, I didn’t approve, but it’s up to management to deal with it. I am not happy with the idea that are expected to report them. Management could have included the aerials ban in the floorcraft announcement they made if they really wanted to.

LL – don’t be put off the boat. It is always busier on a bank holiday weekend (lots of visitors to London). If you go on a normal Sunday, preferably not in spring or summer (the boat is a party/wedding venue, ergo in the “wedding season” there are lots of events and the floor suffers as a result - I think they let us come in and clean it for them with our shoes!)), it can be fantastic. Autumn and winter are definitely best. Dancing outside as the sun goes down, watching the lights along the Thames come up, munching on cake and nattering with friends, it can be great

Personally, I wish that Ceroc had a decent feedback mechanism. Most businesses seem to, but Ceroc doesn’t seem interested. Rocky has implied that organisers (other than himself, obviously) don’t bother to look here, which I think is a shame as it could be a useful resource and source of ideas. Yes, individual feedback can be given to individual organisers. But that doesn’t give Ceroc as a whole an overview of what the punters think or would like. It’s all very ad hoc. And yet with web-based systems, it is so very easy to do a survey. If organisers really are struggling, maybe they should ask the punters what they would like.

[Maxine]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with constructive criticism. Without that sort of feedback how do organisers know what to improve. The weekenders have improved and added certain things and I am sure that is through feedback. I love to give positive feedback when I have really enjoyed an evening but I still feel there is room to suggest where some things can be improved.

As for Rocky’s suggestion about writing directly, I did this regarding Camber daytime freestyle. I sent a very polite email and guess what, I did not even receive an acknowledgement. So this has not encouraged me to write again