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Thread: Getting Men Dancing?

  1. #21
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by todd View Post
    Shame really too. The name "Modern Jive" has become way too ingrained to change it now, but the use of the word "Jive" brings up all sorts of miss-leading ideas of what the dance is for anyone other than those with zero partner dance knowledge or experience.
    I think the "J" word does nothing for the image of the dance. When you tell people what you do they often do the hand-jive!

    It would be fabulous to come up with a new name. Not least because the LeRoc Federation can't protect the LeRoc name and where it's used.

  2. #22
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
    "enriched" chocolate ???
    Hair enriched chocolate!
    Wow thanks WB, I needed that mental image

    I asked a guy I know recently if he'd ever thought about partner dancing and his immediate response was "No Way, I bet it just attracts a load of weirdo's and saddo's"

    Well, I had to admit, on first glance, it might appear that way

    Then we got into a deeper discussion and 'the real' reason came out. Basically, he was afraid of making a prat out of himself.

    He did make a few good points though.

    Having never been before, his perception of why women are more attracted to it than men are as follows...

    There would be an expectancy on the man to be able to pick it up and if he didn't, he'd look like an idiot! But, he feels that no one (men or women) would have any expectancy of a woman and therefore she's got nothing to loose.

    He reckons, women don't mind making mistakes but men can't bare getting stuff wrong 'especially' if its in front of people they don't know

    Women actually 'like' being helped, whereas, men hate it!

    Men don't like being pressured and the thought of 'having' to dance with anyone who asks, is a turn off

    He's definitely convinced its a just a good disguise for 'pickup joint' and men hate feeling like predators!

    I did follow up by asking him what might change his mind in the future and he said, if he was offered a few private lessons in total secret, so he at least knew the beginners moves before he turned up on the first night and that he knew of some gorgeous ladies, who'd beg him to escort them on their first night.. he'd be tempted

    So maybe there's your answer, offer cheap private (secret) lessons
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  3. #23
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    MJ didn't grow from Ceroc. MJ was there in the first place. If anything, Ceroc grew from MJ because people wanted/needed less. Ceroc have done a brilliant job of simplifying MJ to get in the maximum number of dancers. This meant they introduced the concept of "there is no footwork" - I think it's a step too far, but it's a step you can take with either foot and in any direction
    I agree to a certain extent. There was MJ and then Ceroc. But partner dancing died a death in the late 70's early 80's. And Ceroc revived it's popilarity, One reason was making it easier to learn with "less footwork."

  4. #24
    Registered User frodo's Avatar
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    There was MJ and then Ceroc. But partner dancing died a death in the late 70's early 80's. And Ceroc revived it's popilarity, One reason was making it easier to learn with "less footwork."
    I'd be surprised if that were true.

  5. #25
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    My perspective having been a demo and taxi in central and greater london and being a teacher in singapore is that men tend to need to be introduced by a woman (as has already been stated) but need a degree of personal encouragement to continue..

    My examples include the male teacher remembering names of people in his class and welcoming them by name. A class of 200, but looking back although he knew many womens names the people he welcomed by name, especially in front of others and during the class, were men.
    The female taxi dancer giving specific personal encouragement to men that were there for the first time. Giving them the feeling that they (the taxi dancer - who (supposedly) knows what they are doing) values them and would like them to come back...
    Me as a teacher specifically complimenting the men as I danced with them and saying I enjoyed dancing with them. I danced with the women too. They did not appear to need such reassurance - their enjoyment came from their ability to follow and have some fun.

    I think its about not wanting to appear a prat/idiot. Therefore someone in charge (be it teacher/taxi or whatever) going out of their way to compliment/encourage goes a long long way with men. i am not suggesting that one says something that is not true just that praise goes further with men than with women in this particular (beginner) environment.

    Again, as I said, this is my perspective from my experience..
    Last edited by foxylady; 19th-August-2010 at 09:52 PM. Reason: spelling mistakes etc

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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    I'd be surprised if that were true.
    You might be right, but, that's what Ceroc made us believe back in the early '90's

  7. #27
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    partner dancing died a death in the late 70's early 80's. And Ceroc revived it's popilarity,
    Partner dancing did not die at all. As someone who attended ballroom classes from 1977 onwards I can tell you that they were busy, especially so post Saturday Night Fever.

    What had died a decade earlier was the era of ballroom as the most common social dance for single people on Saturday night. Ceroc has not revived these times in any material way. The modern jive scene is something altogether new and niche - compared to mainstream ballroom at it's height.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    One reason was making it easier to learn
    Ceroc did make partner dancing easier to learn. However, IMHO the reason modern jive is enjoyed by so many people is the music. You can dance MJ to popular music. If MJ had been added to the end of a long list of Latin dances at ballroom classes and danced to the usual ballroom style music it would have been as popular as the ChaChaCha and nobody would be running weekenders where it's danced all night.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    with "less footwork."
    So now we've gone from "there is no footwork" to "less footwork". There's footwork. However, you can get by in MJ if you get the footwork wrong. This is because there's more distance between partners. And this is the reason why people dancing the two variants of MJ can still dance as a couple.

  8. #28
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    So now we've gone from "there is no footwork" to "less footwork". There's footwork.
    When it has been stated that MJ has no footwork, I think what I took from the lesson's was that there was no real prescribed footwork like there is in Salsa. Yes there is footwork and like me you can have two left feet but you can still make the dance work.

    I tried Salsa once with my sister and I was embarassed by my lack of progress and how difficult I found moving my feet.

    If there had been foot work taught in the first few Ceroc classes that I went to, I could honestly say I would have missed 10 years of fun within the MJ world.

  9. #29
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    If there had been foot work taught in the first few Ceroc classes that I went to, I could honestly say I would have missed 10 years of fun within the MJ world.
    There is a big difference between beginners lessons where you don't make a fuss about footwork and saying "there is not footwork". When I asked my first MJ teacher about footwork the answer was "there is no footwork" and I'm not alone in receiving this answer.

    I know there's footwork, but I don't make a big deal of it in my beginners lessons. I sort of slip it in as I know that telling guys to be on a particular foot on a particular beat will confuse them, could make them wrong and make them less likely to return. However I do often say "guys, please move your feet" when they seem glued to the spot in moves where they swap places with their partners - but I don't tell them which foot to move first. I do say step towards the back of the room/stage/curtains/kitchen/etc - they usually do this with the correct foot rather than crossing their legs to follow my instructions - this leads to them being on the correct foot without me saying "left" or "right".

    I do talk about the lady's footwork in the beginners lessons, but mostly in the turns and spins. This is because they need to be on the correct foot for those turns to work. Being on the wrong foot in the turns is likely to make the ladies feel wrong and this will reduce the chances they will return to the class.

  10. #30
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    One of my inital attractions to Ceroc was that "there was no footwork". I had done some Ballroom and the idea of learning a style of dance where I didn't have to worry about my feet was a real attraction. I've been dancing Ceroc for a couple of years now (having given up the Ballroom for the much more fun Ceroc) and have found that my "footwork" has been a natural progression.

    As I now have a sizable repertoire of moves that I don't have to 'think about' while dancing, I have found myself naturally concentrating more on my footwork and ensuring that my weight is in the right place, which in turn places the follower's weight in the correct place (hopefully).

    Not having to worry about the footwork helped me to pick up the moves quicker and enjoy dancing more. Now that I can continue to improve my dancing by challenging myself to do more with my feet keeps the dance fresh for me.

    I agree that it's not so much "there is no footwork", rather, "you don't have to worry about your feet", as if you are applying the technique of the move correctly, the feet should take care of themselves.

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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Partner dancing did not die at all. As someone who attended ballroom classes from 1977 onwards I can tell you that they were busy, especially so post Saturday Night Fever.

    What had died a decade earlier was the era of ballroom as the most common social dance for single people on Saturday night. Ceroc has not revived these times in any material way. The modern jive scene is something altogether new and niche - compared to mainstream ballroom at it's height.
    Ok you win on this point


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    So now we've gone from "there is no footwork" to "less footwork"
    I think both are true. During my years of Ceroc I was pretty much taught all 800 ish official moves. I don't think there were more than 10 moves where the footwork aspect was specifically highlighted and taught.

  12. #32
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    Re: Getting Men Dancing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    I think both are true. During my years of Ceroc I was pretty much taught all 800 ish official moves. I don't think there were more than 10 moves where the footwork aspect was specifically highlighted and taught.
    There is a big difference between not teaching footwork and there actually being no footwork. It was there all along, but someone decided that mentioning it would scare people.

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