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Thread: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

  1. #21
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Different context I know but would you agree that the same applies to partner dancing? If so, why?
    Depends on what the end goal is.

    If you end end is to be able to have a nice wee unchallenging dance that is fun for you and your partner at a simple level, then no - no mistakes necessary because (assuming thr proficiency of you and the person you are dancing with is high enough to start with) you may not need to really "try".

    If your end goal is to be as good a dancer as possible and progress to increasing your level of skill/style/connection etc, then yes - you need to try new things (moves/style points etc), and unless you are the perfect embodiment of Modern Jive proficiency*, you will make mistakes while doing so.

    *fully expecting at least one person to make a comment on that point

  2. #22
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Likewise, if I sense or know I'm dancing with a woman who will throw herself into anything that feels a bit like a drop, I count it as my mistake when she throws herself into a drop and I'm not ready for it. This probably happens about once a night.
    Meh, I just let them fall. I think of it as evolution in action.


    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Having my partner collide with other people on the floor is my most common mistake. Beginners, who like to step back until their arm is at maximum extension, are the most difficult case.
    Yes, that's a tricky one.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Ladies with special instructions are tricky. Locally there are Miss. "I don't do spins",
    In Ceroc? Half the dance is spin-based...

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Mrs. "I'll walk off if you do a hallejuah, pretzel or neck break"
    Seriously? And you dance with this nutter? Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    and Madame "Don't touch my neck".
    Well, that's do-able, if a bit weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    I have a terrible record in these cases, but I don't dance with them more than once in an evening if possible.
    I'm surprised you dance with them at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    I hardly ever smile,
    Could be due to the above partners

  3. #23
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Seriously? And you dance with this nutter? Why?
    Hmm, it sounds rather close to the attitude of your good (and much missed from here) friend CeeCee with respect to her attitude to Archiespins

  4. #24
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post
    the perfect embodiment of Modern Jive proficiency*

    *fully expecting at least one person to make a comment on that point
    Surely the use of the term proficiency implies a lack of perfection?

    Nice to meet a female's expectations occasionally

  5. #25
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Hmm, it sounds rather close to the attitude of your good (and much missed from here) friend CeeCee with respect to her attitude to Archiespins
    But that's different. CeeCee is the perfect embodiment of Modern Jive proficiency, she's allowed.

    (Shame you missed her guest appearance on Saturday, Rob )

  6. #26
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    Different context I know but would you agree that the same applies to partner dancing? If so, why?
    The biggest problem with analogies taken out of context is meaning is mostly determined by context. So analogies are often quite literally meaningless. And the more they get repeated, the more trite they become. It's trite, because everyone makes mistakes.

    In my view, the major issues are the consequences of you're mistakes and why you're making them.

    Obviously, it depends what you consider a mistake: is it a technical error, is it a poor lead, is it simply an overturned spin? Or is it tripping over your own feet and pulling your partner and several spectators down with you? Is it messing up a drop and landing your partner backwards on their head. These are all mistakes, with very different consequences.

    The consequences are strongly mitigated by the context. It also depends who you are dancing with and other contextual factors. If you're messing around at freestyle, teaching, practising for a competition, competing, or performing then the significance of any mistake varies. The music, the room on the floor, how well you know the venue are all important factors. Who you're dancing with has an obvious impact - a new dancer vs experienced; a friend vs a stranger; a good dancer vs a great dancer? I'll might use a drop with a fast, complex entry with dancers I know well, because I know that if things go wrong, we can recover and there isn't much chance of real injury.

    Finally, and perhaps most importantly: there's a huge difference between making mistakes because you're trying stuff out vs making mistakes because you're just not very good. The key for me is that if I keep making the same mistake over and over again, then I'm not actually improving - I'm just making mistakes. Statements like these can all too often be used to defend the latter. I prefer a more nuanced understanding that these sort of statements can capture.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Having my partner collide with other people on the floor is my most common mistake...
    I step back onto people who appear behind me about every fifth dance on a crowded floor and maybe once an hour at a typical freestyle.
    I've noticed the floorcraft at ceroc going down-hill recently (at least at the venues and events I've been to). Almost invariably, it's the experienced dancers who are the most guilty.
    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Ladies with special instructions are tricky.
    If there's a safety issue, then it's not problem. But if someone starts telling me that they want to dance but then tell me they won't do basic MJ moves, then...
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Seriously? And you dance with this nutter? Why?
    I'm there to dance. If they're not, then I'm not going to dance with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FirstMove View Post
    Likewise, if I sense or know I'm dancing with a woman who will throw herself into anything that feels a bit like a drop, I count it as my mistake when she throws herself into a drop and I'm not ready for it. This probably happens about once a night.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    Meh, I just let them fall. I think of it as evolution in action.
    Yep. That's their mistake (assuming your lead is clear) and gravity is a good teacher. My two rules with drops are:
    1. If I lead it, it's my job to keep you safe; if I don't lead it, you're on your own (OK - I'm rarely that cruel in practice)
    2. If you dig your nails in, you can hold yourself up.

  7. #27
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
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    Re: If you don't make mistakes you're not trying hard enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    If you dig your nails in, you can hold yourself up.
    Nothing wrong with freshly painted nails being sunk into the skin...

    ..and if it saves the girl your dancing with the embarrassment of falling flat onto her arse in the middle of the dusty dancefloor, all the better

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