WCS - a newbie's perspective

[rtwwpad]

So tonight was the WCS Freestyle at Windsor and I had a good time. The J&J was fun to watch but did break up the feel of the evening for me. Congrats on 2nd place RobD. I had a good set of dances - thank you ladies - but find myself a lot more tired after each dance, mentally as well as physically than I do at Ceroc.

Looking back at my Ceroc history (which is almost two years now) I never attended a freestyle this early on. But while its pushing my comfort zone I feel I am improving from going there and dancing with other people. Its so frustrating being a beginner again. Hopefully by doing my exercises for 2-3 songs a day (6 count, 8 count, small medley of moves) I can drill it into my thick skull.

I quite like the way JC moves, and having a chat to him tonight I can see a lot of work is required as he has given up ceroc, goes 3 times a week and has been at it for 2 years. Still something to aim for eh?

Everyone smiling tonight, which was nice. Must have been the charity effect and Deb (wifey) really happy as she won a new pair of shoes in the raffle.

Workshop on Sunday.

[robd]

Deb (wifey) really happy as she won a new pair of shoes

With a wife like that what are you doing going online when you get home?

[Andy McGregor]

With a wife like that what are you doing going online when you get home?

Hiding in his office

[rtwwpad]

Posting online from my bed actually

Takes me a while to unwind enough to sleep after dancing. But will pass the comment on Rob

[Steven666]

People can be quite precious about the footwork in lessons but after sitting down and watching the dancing going on there is a lot of 'coasting' going on in the freestyle.

Lol. Very ture. Is it really ok for a lead to not move their feet for a whole 8 counts while he'll uses his arms to lead, I've seen a lot of that lately. And standing still on an achor. Is this legitimet? I'm a beginner so this may be ok, I just don't know, but my perception suggest there is a fair bit of fudging going on being covered by an abundence of confidence most people have.

Am I going wrong by not standing still and not moving my feet???

[alinp]

Is it really ok for a lead to not move their feet for a whole 8 counts while he'll uses his arms to lead

That's really a 2 parter

I'd suggest it's better to get in the habit of moving your feet to move your body around, but please, please DON'T use your arms to lead!!

[robd]

Am I going wrong by not standing still and not moving my feet???

Not wrong. Just ****.

And you can't neg-rep me again for at least 2 days LOL

[Lee Bartholomew]

Lol. Very ture. Is it really ok for a lead to not move their feet for a whole 8 counts while he'll uses his arms to lead, I've seen a lot of that lately. And standing still on an achor. Is this legitimet? I'm a beginner so this may be ok, I just don't know,

The footwork is to get the body moving. You will find that they are leading with their bodys rather than their arms, even if you do not see the feet move.

Same with an anchor. You are taught to tripple as a beginner to get you used to anchoring with your body. Once you can do that independent of your feet, you can anchor on the other foot or without using your feet (though it's a bad habbit!)

but my perception suggest there is a fair bit of fudging going on being covered by an abundence of confidence most people have.

It's a part of it. I know of many people who are considered great dancers, not just in WCS but Jive as well, because they have so much confidance and 'personallity' that the fact they have no technique gets overlooked

Am I going wrong by not standing still and not moving my feet???

As a beginner, yes. As an intermediate/advanced dancer?, as long as you have the technique right, then you will get away with it more.

[Sheepman]

Personally I appreciate being told when I'm doing something wrong.

But there does seem to be a thing about not teaching on the dance floor.

I certainly wouldn't give any comment during/after a dance about what could be improved without being specifically asked, and neither would I expect it in return. I know there are examples of people doing this, in WCS and MJ (and no doubt other styles) where the "expert" offering advice was someone who's ego outweighed their dance ability, the result being dancers ending up being more confused. If you want feedback, ask for it, but take care over who you ask.

There were a few faces I knew and all the WCS crew were very nice. But despite that, only 1 person took the effort to come and say hi to a newcomer to the venue (thanks Gerry), but I'm honestly not having a go here. That's probably not uncommon wherever you go.

It would be quite a surprise if I went to a new venue where I wasn't known, and a stranger came over to welcome me. Do people really expect this to happen? If so, I've not been well served by all those new places I've been to.

I've experienced at Ceroc and MJ venues around the country - being largely ignored if you're new, having the local 'stars' refuse to even look at you, let along dance with you and so on. In fact, if I wander up to a new venue on my own, then this is actually more the rule than the exception.

Once again, I look at the individuals involved (including myself - I am very shy and retiring), the organisers for that particular venue and so on. I don't leap to the conclusion that Ceroc/MJ is anything.

And really this is what I expect, I have to rely on what I am confident in to make it a good night, (usually) that's my dancing. That's much harder when you're a beginner.

there's a lot more variation in levels of dancers at WCS than MJ.

I don't agree with this, I would say it's the other way round. I think it's much rarer to find the awful WCS dancer, who's been doing it for years but just doesn't get it, than it is in MJ. Maybe this is because it's a harder dance so they give up, maybe they feel the elitism and give up, maybe the teaching is more likely to improve their dancing so they never get to that state of awfulness.

I think a big advantage of modern jive is to able to turn up on your own, somewhere you've never been before and be reasonably confident of having a good time.

And where does that confidence come from? It's already been said that an MJ beginner wouldn't fare well at Hammersmith Town Hall. Surely the confidence is about either your dance ability, or being amongst friends? WCS is a harder dance to learn, so inevitably that confidence takes longer to build, (and can easily take a knocking.)

I have heard comments so often from WCS beginners about elitism and snootiness, that I would accept it is an issue even if I hadn't seen it myself. I don't think this is something inherent in the dance or it's etiquette (unlike AT!) There are friendly dancers and unfriendly ones, there are friendly venues and unfriendly ones.

Greg

[jive-vee]

Erm, I think you misunderstood Rob - he meant the group of familiar faces sat on the bank of chairs to the left of the door at Swingmasters.

I'm not entirely sure what I said wrong in this post but someone saw fit to anonymously neg rep me for it...

[Northants Girly]

I'm not entirely sure what I said wrong in this post but someone saw fit to anonymously neg rep me for it...

So someone disagreed with what you said but didn't have to guts to comment on the thread or sign their rep?

Gosh . . . . wonder which insecure, coward that could be?

[robd]

Gosh . . . . wonder which insecure, coward that could be?

Well, I would have suggested S666 as I was certain he neg-repped me earlier but I am starting to reconsider since 'Nice to see that you are still a dick!' doesn't appear to contain a single misspelling and therefore is extremely unlikely to originate from him.

[rtwwpad]

Well, I would have suggested S666 as I was certain he neg-repped me earlier but I am starting to reconsider since 'Nice to see that you are still a dick!' doesn't appear to contain a single misspelling and therefore is extremely unlikely to originate from him.

Not me, I sign neg and positive rep as its nice to know who its from

[Maxine]

I'm not entirely sure what I said wrong in this post but someone saw fit to anonymously neg rep me for it...

If you become a member you will see who the author was and then you can thank them personally.

I've been neg rep'd before but I did get over it eventually but have not forgotten

[robd]

Not me, I sign neg and positive rep as its nice to know who its from

If you become a member you will see who the author was and then you can thank them personally.

I would not sign rep (and I never send neg rep, it's pathetic) because I figure if you are keen enough to know who sent it then you can stump up the money to Franck for Silver membership.

[Steven666]

Well, I would have suggested S666 as I was certain he neg-repped me earlier but I am starting to reconsider since 'Nice to see that you are still a dick!' doesn't appear to contain a single misspelling and therefore is extremely unlikely to originate from him.

Your case lacks substance if you can only resort to mocking my poor English skills!

[Maxine]

I would not sign rep (and I never send neg rep, it's pathetic) because I figure if you are keen enough to know who sent it then you can stump up the money to Franck for Silver membership.

I agree I never give neg reps, I would prefer to argue my point and If you don’t agree, well that’s life.

Except once, I did give a neg rep once by accident but I did write and apologise for pressing the wrong button, on what I though was a really well written post

[Steven666]

So in order for everone to get dances and avoid refusals, you must join cliques. Locations of which have been handily pointed out...

Is that right?

[Steven666]

The footwork is to get the body moving. You will find that they are leading with their bodys rather than their arms, even if you do not see the feet move.

But in one case, no, a fair few cases, the leads body didn't even move...at all...I'm sure it didn't...for ages!!!

Though as a point, I know I need to move mine more...

Same with an anchor. You are taught to tripple as a beginner to get you used to anchoring with your body. Once you can do that independent of your feet, you can anchor on the other foot or without using your feet (though it's a bad habbit!)

Is there an excuss to triple on normal feet on an achor then step on the the deemed wrong foot on count 1? That looked odd. Though if it's ok, then it's ok...!?

It's a part of it. I know of many people who are considered great dancers, not just in WCS but Jive as well, because they have so much confidance and 'personallity' that the fact they have no technique gets overlooked

And the people with little confidence like me also get overlooked.

But do people choose to overlook the lack of technique and more importantly WHY? Is technique not remotely important then? Shall I, as a beginner, not bother with it?

As a beginner, yes. As an intermediate/advanced dancer?, as long as you have the technique right, then you will get away with it more.

But should it be a case of "getting away with it"? Is it fraudulant or just accepted practice? And is this the same for both follows and leads...?

Thanks for a decent reply btw.

[David Bailey]

I certainly wouldn't give any comment during/after a dance about what could be improved without being specifically asked, and neither would I expect it in return. I know there are examples of people doing this, in WCS and MJ (and no doubt other styles) where the "expert" offering advice was someone who's ego outweighed their dance ability, the result being dancers ending up being more confused. If you want feedback, ask for it, but take care over who you ask.

If you're dancing socially, you're dancing socially. Teaching on the dance floor is rude (to other dancers if not to your partner) and it's ineffective.

Advice is best reserved for practice sessions, classes, private lessons or other learning-based sessions.

In addition, free advice is usually worth what you pay for it.

I have heard comments so often from WCS beginners about elitism and snootiness, that I would accept it is an issue even if I hadn't seen it myself. I don't think this is something inherent in the dance or it's etiquette (unlike AT!)

Absolutely

(Although to be fair, salsa's far more snooty than AT)