Page 4 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 315

Thread: WCS - a newbie's perspective

  1. #61
    Registered User Dottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    431
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    I think it's worth noting that this thread was started as a newcomers perspective on WCS (and perhaps the WCS scene) and many valid points are being made by newcomers. Some may not think they're correct, but that is their perception.

    First impressions can be hard to break and it seems similar impressions have been gained in different areas of the country, but with the common theme of a perceived elitism within WCS.

    The question therefore is.... does the WCS community want to change this?? From some of the replies, I wonder!!
    I hear what you are saying but I still have difficulty with people (beginners or not) looking in on a dance between two people and making judgements and assumptions based on their facial expressions.

  2. #62
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    [QUOTE=emmylou25;577514]Exactly, and dancing with someone different there's always something to take away from it.

    I think with WCS, some teachers need to be more approachable in freestyles. QUOTE]

    Paul Warden will dance with anyone, I know that from personal experiences because he even leads me

  3. #63
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    I hear what you are saying but I still have difficulty with people (beginners or not) looking in on a dance between two people and making judgements and assumptions based on their facial expressions.
    Just a thought though.... assuming 2 potential partners of similar abilities, are u more likely to want to dance with the one who looks like they're enjoying themselves or the one who looks deadly serious throughout???

  4. #64
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post

    Paul Warden will dance with anyone, I know that from personal experiences because he even leads me
    I had the pleasure of Peter following in the first class - he was very complimentary too

  5. #65
    Registered User Dottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    431
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    Just a thought though.... assuming 2 potential partners of similar abilities, are u more likely to want to dance with the one who looks like they're enjoying themselves or the one who looks deadly serious throughout???
    Again the assumption is being made that the the deadly serious one is not having a good time or not enjoying the dance. In my experience the serious ones are often the best.

  6. #66
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    Okay - I personally think that if you're enjoying yourself, then smiling shows this and trasmits your pleasure to your partner, hence improving the their esteem and confidence which in turn leads to a better experience for both parties.
    I don't think you need to be grinning like a Cheshire Cat, but I agree that "body language" is telling - and if the body language is one of concentration rather than, say, bliss, not only does it "lead to a better experience for both parties", it means you dance better.

    Confidence: fake it till you make it.

  7. #67
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Norf Lundin
    Posts
    17,001
    Blog Entries
    1
    Rep Power
    18

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by glads View Post
    a girl could get a complex by being ignored so much
    Heh. Don't try Tango, that's my advice.

  8. #68
    Registered User emmylou25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Banbury
    Posts
    554
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post

    Paul Warden will dance with anyone, I know that from personal experiences because he even leads me
    I must have caught him on a bad day. Maybe next time.

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Dottie View Post
    Again the assumption is being made that the the deadly serious one is not having a good time or not enjoying the dance. In my experience the serious ones are often the best.
    I shall remember to look extremely serious if you're around - I may get a dance then

  10. #70
    Registered User Dottie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    431
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    I shall remember to look extremely serious if you're around - I may get a dance then
    Please ask me to dance or come and introduce yourself. I am just out of beginership myself. Believe me there have been many highs and lows for me too.

  11. #71
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wokingham
    Posts
    300
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    I think it's worth noting that this thread was started as a newcomers perspective on WCS (and perhaps the WCS scene) and many valid points are being made by newcomers. Some may not think they're correct, but that is their perception.

    First impressions can be hard to break and it seems similar impressions have been gained in different areas of the country, but with the common theme of a perceived elitism within WCS.

    The question therefore is.... does the WCS community want to change this?? From some of the replies, I wonder!!
    As AlinP says I started this thread, just to provide feedback on my experiences and hoped others would come forward with theirs. I'm still of the opinion that WCS venues are not as friendly towards beginners as Modern Jive classes, with the possible exception of Sam B class at ArchAngel, but this is mainly because its mostly beginners with some good dancers like Alison, James, Kasper coming along and the sense of community Sam is bringing to the class is something she reinforces throughout the lesson rather than just saying at the end dance with everyone.

    Having said all this I think that the main reason people feel that its not as friendly is partly a confidence thing, partly a snobbish thing and mainly a lack of taxi's. Taxi's act as a safety net for a lot of beginners and are someone who is there to dance with them and a face they can look for an recognise in other weeks as well. The trouble with WCS is that the classes are so small in comparison, taxi's don't really work.

  12. #72
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Having said all this I think that the main reason people feel that its not as friendly is partly a confidence thing, partly a snobbish thing and mainly a lack of taxi's. Taxi's act as a safety net for a lot of beginners and are someone who is there to dance with them and a face they can look for an recognise in other weeks as well. The trouble with WCS is that the classes are so small in comparison, taxi's don't really work.
    I find that taxi dancers work well at smaller classes. Probably better than they do at large classes.

    My own opinion regarding the reputation of WCS classes is that the reputation is due to acceptance of an existing culture. And there's a reluctance to admit there's any need to change by some of the teachers and experience dancers. I'm afraid that I keep hearing the same things from students - and when I pass on the things I've heard I get the same reaction "there's no problem", "it's not happening" and "stop 'WCS bashing'".

    I'm only talking about perception. I've not been to a WCS class for years. But I get dance students telling me about their visits to WCS classes on a regular basis. I'm not reporting my own experiences, I'm reporting what I've heard customers saying. And other customers have posted here that they've had similar experiences at WCS classes - ignore customer opinion at your peril.

    I've been told my customers are wrong to have those opinions and those who have expressed the same opinion on here have been told they are wrong too. The counter argument seems to be along the lines of "Paul Warden is friendly therefore WCS is friendly"

  13. #73
    Registered User Phil_dB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    ...and went to Twickenham again tonight.
    Me too

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    ...only 1 person took the effort to come and say hi to a newcomer to the venue (thanks Gerry)
    That's one more than I got!

    Also a newbie-outsider-type-bloke, I found everyone both in class & freestyle quite friendly. I got plenty of dances, and generally had a decent night

    Sorry I don't know who you are alinp, else I would have certainly said allo


    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    It seemed there were the occasioanl glances from partners as if to say "what was that" and here (picking up on Frodo's point) I would have loved it if I could have had some feedback as to what wasn't working.
    I don't think it's the done thing for people to be dishing out unrequested feedback on a social dance floor? I've asked for feedback now & then, if I thought the person i'm asking would be happy to help, - i've always received a positive response

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    So - all in all - not a horrendous experience, although certainly not in my comfort zone.
    Godstone is a doable trip for you, - why don't you try that venue out? You will find it far more relaxed, friendly and sociable. There are always too many women there too, so you won't be short of dances.
    Petts Wood is just as relaxed & sociable, the music's better, the genders is a little more balanced - but Orpington might be a bit far for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by glads View Post
    there is most definitely a snobbery and elitism blatantly apparent amongst WCS dancers to a far greater degree than at any MJ venue! At the last weekender I attended I plucked up courage to ask for a couple of dances and the although the people concerned did deign to dance with me, the looks of disdain upon their faces nearly led me to walk off the dance floor!
    I'm sorry to read about your experiences

    Which venues / weekenders have you experienced all this at ???

  14. #74
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Warrington
    Posts
    57
    Rep Power
    11

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Sorry haven't figured out how to do the quote thing! Phil deB asked at which venues/weekenders I've experienced this. My main experience of WCS social dancing has been at weekenders, namely Southport and Skegness

  15. #75
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by glads View Post
    Sorry haven't figured out how to do the quote thing! Phil deB asked at which venues/weekenders I've experienced this.
    You just click on the "post" button at the bottom of the post you wish to quote. If you don't want to quote the whole post you can delete the bit you don't need. Just take care to leave the square brackets [ and ] intact.

    You can use copy and paste if you want to break the post up into bite size chunks - just make sure you copy everything including the square brackets.

  16. #76
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    I think it's worth noting that this thread was started as a newcomers perspective on WCS (and perhaps the WCS scene) and many valid points are being made by newcomers. Some may not think they're correct, but that is their perception.
    In this debate any viewpoint is only as 'correct' as the perception of the person holding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    First impressions can be hard to break and it seems similar impressions have been gained in different areas of the country, but with the common theme of a perceived elitism within WCS.
    It's a bit harder for me to relate to this impression, partly as I started WCS a few years ago now and partly because I knew many of the familiar faces on the scene from MJ events.

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    The question therefore is.... does the WCS community want to change this?? From some of the replies, I wonder!!
    Your implicit assertion is that the 'WCS community' (whatever that may be and however many or few of that group read this forum) should want to change this. Why is that?

  17. #77
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Oxford
    Posts
    677
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    ... with the common theme of a perceived elitism within WCS.
    That asks two questions.

    Firstly, is the perception of elitism actually justified? The thing to remember is that MJ is, in most cases, a very simplified form of partner dancing. For that reason, most other partner dances are going to be harder than MJ. How much of the perception of elitism is simply because people find that WCS is harder than MJ and think this is wrong.

    Secondly, can you explain what is wrong with elitism? All too often when I hear accusations of elitism, the real motive is more about bringing everyone else down to a lower level. Elitism is a fair charge in some cases, but in most it looks a lot more like transference...

  18. #78
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Nr Cambridge
    Posts
    3,696
    Rep Power
    12

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    However what I meant to add but forgot in my most recent post is that thinking about this thread did inspire me to ask a wider range of people to dance at a WCS night I attended on Friday (West Coast Amnesia - very good, excellent venue and music) so perhaps it is doing one of the things it was intended to do?

  19. #79
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    681
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by robd View Post
    West Coast Amnesia - very good, excellent venue and music
    I did dance with all the new followers at this event, infact I tried to dance with everyone but time got in the way and I missed a few

    Such a pity that we will have to wait until Oct for the nex Amnesia event

  20. #80
    Registered User David Franklin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3,426
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by geoff332 View Post
    Firstly, is the perception of elitism actually justified? The thing to remember is that MJ is, in most cases, a very simplified form of partner dancing. For that reason, most other partner dances are going to be harder than MJ. How much of the perception of elitism is simply because people find that WCS is harder than MJ and think this is wrong.
    I'm sure you have a point, but less defensible are things like:

    "No, I won't explain that - if you want to learn, pay a Pro, like I did".
    "I'm right and you're wrong; I won't explain why, but have you had privates with Jordan about this?"

    I've also seen *many* WCS explanations on here that leave me mystified - where I've felt the point of the post was "let me show how clever I am" rather than to actually inform. Now this might well be my own shortcomings - my WCS is very much at the beginner level. But I've had a fair amount of postiive feedback for my own "try to explain WCS" posts on here from people who are good, so I'm not convinced it's all my fault.

    Secondly, can you explain what is wrong with elitism? All too often when I hear accusations of elitism, the real motive is more about bringing everyone else down to a lower level. Elitism is a fair charge in some cases, but in most it looks a lot more like transference...
    I agree that elitism gets a harder time on here than it deserves - it sometimes feels like "OMG, you used the E-word!".

    At the same time, when (several) people post "I went to XYZ and found it unfriendly", I don't find myself impressed by posts essentially saying "XYZ is friendly - the problem is with you".

    [Some venues are less friendly than others, and like elitism, that isn't necessarily bad. I don't think Hammersmith is a good place to take a beginner MJ dancer, and I don't think this is really a fault with Hammersmith. But if people were posting "Hammersmith is really friendly to beginners, the problem is with you", I'd be unimpressed by that too].

    I'm aware I've slightly exaggerated some positions here - consider it shorthand for the point I want to make.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. How to get into WCS?
    By Phil_dB in forum The Land of a 1000 dances
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 21st-February-2010, 10:04 PM
  2. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 18th-January-2010, 11:03 AM
  3. WCS vs MJ dancers – the CerocPort solution...
    By ducasi in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 176
    Last Post: 18th-March-2009, 08:59 PM
  4. The Anchor in MJ: WCS meets MJ
    By JiveLad in forum Intermediate Corner
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 8th-March-2009, 06:30 AM
  5. Bisley WCS workshops cancelled
    By GrahamB in forum Let's talk about dance
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 6th-March-2009, 01:41 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •