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Thread: WCS - a newbie's perspective

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    WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Rather than resurrect an 8 page thread, thought I would start a new one here with my experiences with WCS so far. I've done Sam Buckwalters classes at Southport, a Paul and Cat workshop, a Wednesday night class at Twickenham and a Danceswing class at Marlow on a Thursday. Its been a bit disjointed as we had to stop dancing for 3 weeks due to other issues.

    I don't have any particular axes to grind but I am sure that I will annoy someone with my views, I'm sorry but they are my own views and offered for your consideration. Hopefully they also go some way to addressing issues Andy McG raised and answer the question he originally posed. Is WCS made too hard. I have made one or two of these points before, hopefully I won't repeat myself.

    Right, Sam's classes at Southport. Great, well taught, easy to follow and happy to talk afterwards. A great advert for WCS. Obviously a Ceroc crowd

    Paul and Cat's workshop. Good again, in fact excellent from Paul and Cat, one or two other teachers seem to have a bee in their bonnet about Ceroc but instruction was very good. Knew a lot of people there from Ceroc. Another great advert.

    Twickenham Wednesday night. Not such a good experience. Teaching was a little muddled in the review section but otherwise ok. If I didn't have a friend I was meeting there I would definately have felt a bit left alone or out. No real interaction from staff there, who instead concentrated on talking to friends, other instructors or people they knew rather than newbies and I think this is the biggest difference from a regular Ceroc night. With no taxi's as it were there is no one to talk to or put newcomers at their ease. Its a very different environment from Ceroc and might contribute to why some Ceroc people give up. Review class was done in the corridor, which meant you had to dance small so you didn't bash people into doors, fire alarm or the toilet entrance. A lovely lass came out after deciding the intermediate class was too hard and the teacher taking the review class basically used her as a spare demo and didn't dance with her once, which was a disappointment for her I imagine. About 35 people inc staff.

    Thursday Marlow night. Again much the same. Instruction was good although the improvers class was a little strange as the teacher decided not to step through the routine to slow counts at any point (which they had done in the beginners), just going straight to music, which I found a little confusing and which flustered about half the class. Thankfully I had a friend there again, but the crowd there were a lot friendlier and relaxed (possibly because I have seen them at Utopia or Twisted events). Felt a little let down, since checked and no fault of DanceSwing, but the westcoastswingdn site lists Sam BuckWalter as the teacher there and I had been expecting her but it wasn't. About 18-20 people.

    So a lot less numberswise than Ceroc, in some ways a lot less friendly as well and I would say, while you can criticise Ceroc and its cookie cutter approach you do get a consistent teaching model for the basic moves. I want to continue on my WCS journey and I am unsure of the best way to go about it. I hear good things about Paul and Cat's new venture on Monday nights, so maybe thats the way to go.

    The footwork isn't too hard and slotting is relatively natural to me thanks to it being banged into my thick skull by Rocky and Val. The biggest problem I have is the fact I need to do a six count pattern when my brain is going ohh look 8 count beat. I can do it in Ceroc so need to wait for it to click in WCS.

    So to answer Andy's question, I don't think WCS is made too hard, but its definately not as friendly as Ceroc. People can be quite precious about the footwork in lessons but after sitting down and watching the dancing going on there is a lot of 'coasting' going on in the freestyle.
    Last edited by rtwwpad; 27th-June-2010 at 08:52 AM.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    I'm also relatively new to 'regular' WCS as opposed to the occasional workshop and weekenders, so it's interesting to hear another person's views on the various classes.

    I've not been to the Marlow class, but I go to Mike's (with Sam sometimes supporting when it's special events) classes in Bicester and have always found them really straightforward, catering for all levels and encouraging the beginners to also join in the second class. It's also the friendliest and most welcoming WCS classes I've been to, so I'm quite surprised at how you felt it was at Marlow.

    I've also not done any of Paul/Cat's regular weekly classes, only a couple of Windsor workshops which admittedly are huge in numbers. I think both are great teachers, and I've found Cat really friendly and helpful at the various workshops of hers I've done, but I find because of the level of some of the dancers/plus the fact that everyone seems to be in their groups it's a lot more intimidating than some of the smaller venues. I have to say it's not a venue I'd go and approach other people to ask to dance compared to the smaller venues.

    I guess it's all about finding venues & teachers than suit you - luckily there's a lot more classes around to choose from, especially if you're further south

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    100% agree re Sam's classes at Southport weekender & Paul & Cat's Windsor workshop (well the one I've attended so far) - most enjoyable.

    I haven't ventured to Twickenham as yet, mainly for the reasons rt states in his post, but I had heard this had changed due to an influx of MJ dancers, seems not .

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    I go to Twickenham occasionally and I echo that. My money has always been taken without a please or thank you or break in the conversation with the in crowd.

    I can dance but there more than a healthy number of Luvvies who are off limits.

    If Paul Warden didn't teach such an excellent class I would not bother.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhal View Post
    I can dance but there more than a healthy number of Luvvies who are off limits.
    what do you mean by 'luvvies who are off limits' (I am not English, I am genuinely not sure what you mean, not trying to be funny) ?

    Do you mean there are people there that are 'off limits' to dance with you ? If so, is it because you have asked them for a dance and they refused, making you feel like you were not good enough ?

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    As a 4 month WCS newbie, I'll post a few random observations too.


    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    If I didn't have a friend (at Twickenham) I was meeting there I would definately have felt a bit left alone or out. No real interaction from staff there, who instead concentrated on talking to friends, other instructors or people they knew rather than newbies and I think this is the biggest difference from a regular Ceroc night. With no taxi's as it were there is no one to talk to or put newcomers at their ease. Its a very different environment from Ceroc and might contribute to why some Ceroc people give up.
    Yeah, I know where you're coming from


    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhal View Post
    I go to Twickenham occasionally and I echo that. My money has always been taken without a please or thank you or break in the conversation with the in crowd.
    I can't say that I get a particularly warm welcome on the door there either... not going to cry over my cornflakes about it though


    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhal View Post
    I can dance but there more than a healthy number of Luvvies who are off limits.
    I have found most people at Twickenham friendly enough. Haven't come across anyone who I thought was 'off limits' as such. What strikes me as different (to MJ scene) is that many of the regulars dance with the same regulars much of the time. I reckon people tend to "work the room" far more at MJ nights, - this is what I'm used to seeing & this is what I personally prefer to do.

    I've been to Windsor workshops, and also both Amnesia freestyles (at Tooting) (both had plenty of Twickenham regs): - everyone I asked to dance with (strangers & twick regs) seemed happy to dance with a nye-on beginner like me, - on the odd occasion I even got a few experienced people doing the asking.

    I have been told many times that more experienced followers are happy to dance with beginners as they can practice variations/styling whatever off beginner moves, - but it still difficult sometimes to really believe that some of the really good dancers would much prefer to be dancing with somebody else.

    I personally dont find Twickenham/Wednesday hugely cliquey really.

    I have chatted to a few girls at other venues who find the place VERY unwelcoming & will never go back now though. What they tell me has happened surprises me, as i've not seen the attitudes they have faced myself.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zuhal View Post
    If Paul Warden didn't teach such an excellent class I would not bother.
    He also teaches an excellent class at S.Norwood on Tuesdays. Anita does the second beginners refresher class, - she's good too

    Overall the standard of dancing at S.Norwood isn't as high as Twickenham (which might be considered a good thing!), - the music comes out of a portable ipod, the floor is dusty, the venue needs a refurb & the surrounding location is a sh*t-hole , - but, as you say, - Paul teaches such a fantastic class (both the first beginners and second intermediate) that you just make the best of everything else



    Paul Farrell's classes at Godstone. VERY FRIENDLY. As friendly as any Ceroc venue. Standard of dancing not as high as Twickenham (!), - but you'll be hard pressed to find a more welcoming and relaxed class. Free tea & biscuits also!


    Paul Farrell's classes at Petts Wood. VERY FRIENDLY. It's like a little family there, they'll welcome any stranger with open arms upon arrival You'll be looked after, danced with, helped, and made to feel more than welcome. Gazza DJs there - music is superb. And free pub chips also!



    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    So a lot less numberswise than Ceroc,
    Yes, - this is a big advantage I think MJ has over WCS, - I love trying out new venues and always love dancing with new faces, - typical WCS nights consist of the same (as lovely as most of those are!) 20-50 people.

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    in some ways a lot less friendly as well
    Hmmmmm - in some ways, yes, I agree. In other ways, and certainly in some venues <COUGH> Petts Wood <COUGH> JUST as friendly... - or moreso!

    I do see a few people who ALWAYS dance with the same people maybe I notice this sort of thing more because of the small size of the scene,... -as of course it happens in MJ too, but it's not as 'in your face' as there's always SO MANY other people who are dancing more socially around.

    I know of 2-3 patronising blokes who have upset girls I know with their attitudes (wont go into details) - but you get these types in MJ also. I haven't come accross any females yet who fit this category.



    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    and I would say, while you can criticise Ceroc and its cookie cutter approach you do get a consistent teaching model for the basic moves.
    It is confusing at first being taught to do the same thing in different ways, - after a while I have become more comfortable in the knowledge that there's more than one way to skin a cat. You have the choice of listening to everyone & sticking to what suits you best, - you might find what suits you now doesn't suit you as well later on. I think there's definitely benefits to be had from learning from different teachers.


    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    I want to continue on my WCS journey and I am unsure of the best way to go about it. I hear good things about Paul and Cat's new venture on Monday nights, so maybe thats the way to go.
    Mel and Peter teach that one, - I'd definitely recommend it - i'm going there tonight. I've found it a very friendly class, & the tuition from both of them together works very well (both great teachers IMHO)

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    So to answer Andy's question, I don't think WCS is made too hard.
    Totally agree, - its definitely not made too hard.

    Apart from one exception I won't name, - all the teachers I've been taught from so far I think are brilliant.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    So last night was mel and pete at twickers. I really hope this one can carry on as mel is a lovely teacher. Very funny and such a joy to watch. Good crowd about 30 or so, but I think cat needs a few more to make it a regular thing. Very enjoyable and look forward to next time.

    Tonight was Samantha b at archangel. Really good lessons. So much information but in such an accessible manner. Really builds your confidence. Clashed with our regular Tuesday night but need to work that out. Floor was scummy as it's downstairs in a bar. However this lady is a fantastic teacher.

    So far I put her and Paul w together as the two best. Then if I sorted the rest in order Melanie boyle, Peter fro
    Twickenham, mikey in marlow, Ed from Windsor workshop. Enjoying it but it's all going to pot in the freestyles ;(

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    Good crowd about 30 or so,
    Pah!

    I joined 50+ "westies" at Godstone on Monday




    Was a v-good night

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Since when did the fact its older people make it better hahahha

    sounds like we have to hunt these westie pockets out

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    I have been told many times that more experienced followers are happy to dance with beginners as they can practice variations/styling whatever off beginner moves,
    I wonder if there is a difference between the willingness of leaders and followers to dance with beginners? Are experienced leaders able to get the same opportunities to get something from a dance in the same way that experienced followers can? I would have thought adding variation and style to the lead could come across as confusing to a new follower.

    ...This might mean a quite different set of experiences for newbies depending whether they were leaders or followers.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Are experienced leaders able to get the same opportunities to get something from a dance in the same way that experienced followers can?
    In my experience, no.

    In all honesty though, I think some experienced followers who practice their styling and play with beginners aren't being particularly good partners themselves. It's one thing to know that you can go crazy styling up everything in simple beginners patterns without affecting the lead. It's another thing entirely to do that without affecting the novice leader who gets stuck like a deer in headlights watching you veer off the slot and doing all sorts of things he doesn't have enough experience to deal with yet.

    At the very least, I have vivid memories of the same thing happening to me when dancing with my teacher not long after starting. I ended up getting hypnotised by her feet and became almost completely unable to sort myself out.

    Leaders rely more on pattern choice than followers do even when practising styling, and dancing with beginners limits the sort of patterns you can practise your styling with. It's certainly not impossible, but I think it's harder for the leaders than it is for the followers. Followers may disagree

    Also, as much as it pains me to admit it, there’s a tendency among men to look down on beginners that woman don’t seem to show to the same degree. That ego is probably just as responsible for what you’re seeing as anything else. However, it isn't just a WCS phenomenon either.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Leaders rely more on pattern choice than followers do even when practising styling, and dancing with beginners limits the sort of patterns you can practise your styling with. It's certainly not impossible, but I think it's harder for the leaders than it is for the followers. Followers may disagree
    When i was a beginner and even now with some leaders, as a follow I want to be lead by someone who's clear in their lead, and will wait for me when I'm anchoring - if you're a follow who's concentrating on what you need to be doing on certain patterns, it can be very offputting if someone leads you off into something else before you think the pattern's finished. I think some leaders (not just in WCS), predominantly those who are still very much learning themselves, try and get ahead of themselves before they've learnt the basics.

    That probably applies to both leaders and followers and who they're dancing with.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I wonder if there is a difference between the willingness of leaders and followers to dance with beginners?
    I don't think the willingness to dance with beginners comes from whether you're Leading or Following. I think it comes from the nature of the individual.


    One bloke I see around: Despite him knowing & chatting to a couple of beginner girls I also know, week after week he'll never ask them to dance. What's more, it's obvious he really doesn't want to either (he's even said he's going to stop going to a particular venue because (and I quote: "all the women there are cr*p.").

    Considering he's been doing WCS for 2.5 years, he's really not that great himself!

    I see advanced & pros who are more than happy to dance with beginners, so surely it follows that intermediates like him REALLY aren't too good to be dancing with beginners either.

    Beginners don't stay beginners forever, & I hope when that day comes they snub him back!

    Wow - do you know when I went to answer your post I didnt mean to go offf on a rant! Just came out



    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    Are experienced leaders able to get the same opportunities to get something from a dance in the same way that experienced followers can?
    After watching Paul Warden dance with beginners, I would have thought the answer was almost definitely a resounding - YES

    Even forgetting styling and syncopations, surely they can practice their foundations too? A teacher (& lovely dancer) mentioned recently that she was still, even now, picked up on her basics during a private with Tatiana.


    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    In my experience, no.
    If you're refering to a real 1st timer/couple-of-weeker type beginner then of course all those synocopations & styling is probably going to throw them.

    When I mentioned about followers being able to practice their styling etc off beginner patterns I was refering to beginners who are able to freestyle beginner patterns, & are at the stage where they're just practicing their basics - drilling them over and over.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moondancer View Post
    I would have thought adding variation and style to the lead could come across as confusing to a new follower.
    ...This might mean a quite different set of experiences for newbies depending whether they were leaders or followers.
    As NZMonkey as already said, - yes, it is no less confusing to leaders I have found that most girls will not only reassure their partner by saying "just ignore what i'm doing ", - but are quite empathetic and will push as far as they think their lead can cope with.

    It's good practice for beginners (/improvers), to cope with all the extra stuff their partners add, - plus, its nice for the leader to know they're not boring an experienced follow as it's obvious they're getting something out of the dance too



    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    When i was a beginner and even now with some leaders, as a follow I want to be lead by someone who's clear in their lead, and will wait for me when I'm anchoring - if you're a follow who's concentrating on what you need to be doing on certain patterns, it can be very offputting if someone leads you off into something else before you think the pattern's finished. I think some leaders (not just in WCS), predominantly those who are still very much learning themselves, try and get ahead of themselves before they've learnt the basics.

    That probably applies to both leaders and followers and who they're dancing with.
    I complete hear & agree with what you're saying. However, to clarify, I think what's being discussed above is styling and syncopations which DON'T affect the other person's beginner patterns (apart from maybe, as said^, being visually off-putting). Not variations of beginner patterns, or even followers taking over the lead.


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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post


    I complete hear & agree with what you're saying. However, to clarify, I think what's being discussed above is styling and syncopations which DON'T affect the other person's beginner patterns (apart from maybe, as said^, being visually off-putting). Not variations of beginner patterns, or even followers taking over the lead.

    Oops, think I was meant to be quoting the 'deer in the headlights' comment! When I was learning as a beginner, anything that was different to what I was expecting was scary and off putting whether it was styling or patterns - the whole things about freestyling in WCS rather than MJ was terrifying compared with classes.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by NZ Monkey View Post
    Tthere’s a tendency among men to look down on beginners that woman don’t seem to show to the same degree.
    I had some not-so-pleasant dances with wcs leaders when I first started, which badly knocked my confidence, and though I went into wcs with an open mind and a humble attitude, I have found too many wcs-ers (with some notable exceptions of course) unfriendly, beginner-intolerant, and up their own backsides. My own progress has been hampered by a lack of confidence which has not been helped by being made to feel by some that, as a beginner follower, I had no more right on God’s good earth than a weasel.


    At my local class we’ve recently acquired some beginners with exactly the right attitude: yes, they want to get better, but they also want to enjoy the journey and have fun, and never mind cliques or snootiness. I think that’s exactly what the wcs community needs, and I hope the beginners keep that outlook as they improve.

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    as a follow I want to be lead by someone who's clear in their lead, and will wait for me when I'm anchoring - if you're a follow who's concentrating on what you need to be doing on certain patterns, it can be very offputting if someone leads you off into something else before you think the pattern's finished.
    I find that the not-being-able-to-anchor thing is usually a consequence of leads being unable to dance to the beat. Alternatively the lead thinks he is doing a rock-and-go but has timed the lead of it too late so you have already started to anchor. (Can I add a personal mini-moan about ‘follower acceleration’ at this point? The non-technical term for a badly-led ‘accelerated move’ is ‘hard yank forward’!)


    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    One bloke I see around: Despite him knowing & chatting to a couple of beginner girls I also know, week after week he'll never ask them to dance. What's more, it's obvious he really doesn't want to either (he's even said he's going to stop going to a particular venue because (and I quote: "all the women there are cr*p.").

    Considering he's been doing WCS for 2.5 years, he's really not that great himself!

    I see advanced & pros who are more than happy to dance with beginners, so surely it follows that intermediates like him REALLY aren't too good to be dancing with beginners either.
    We have a guy like that at my local – he has an inflated sense of his own importance and lets everyone know how good he is by criticising the teacher and demo to the other dancers, corrects each follower as they rotate round, and sometimes explains exactly why the teacher is teaching it all wrong...one of our recent beginners (an experienced jiver) eventually told him to stop confusing her and not to be such an a***, which those of us who have bitten our tongues wanting to say the same thing found quite funny.

    I shouldn’t think he will stop coming here because he likes to see himself as one of the better dancers in a small venue. To be fair, he is one of the more experienced ones, but he’d be a lot nicer to dance with and more popular if he tried to make his dances an enjoyable partnership rather than an opportunity to show off how good he is. I used to really enjoy dancing with him, but I’d rather dance with less good dancers who want to have fun than someone who is trying to catch me out and make me look as bad as possible. This guy likes to wait until I go wrong and then acts a mock-confused pantomime to draw attention to the fact that his lead was perfect ...so how could I miss it! I find that bad-mannered and rather crass, but I know it isn’t personal because he does it to other women too.

    I think some of the better leaders don’t want to take the trouble to dance with beginner followers precisely because they can’t easily alter the patterns without confusing their partners, and thus they find the resulting dance boring. When you start to follow, pretty much anything unexpected puts you off, and if you hesitate or get confused, you dance much worse. The fact that the follower needs to move herself up and down the slot without every step being guided exacerbates the problem – she needs flight and weighting and direction, but uncertainty robs her of that; she splits her weight, becomes tentative and thus far more difficult to lead. A superb leader can successfully lead something tricky on a beginner, but the average lead does not have that crystal clarity and understanding of what is required within his own lead; the chances are he has his own faults and idiosyncrasies and he may tend to find anything he leads much beyond fundamentals doesn’t go quite as intended. So unsurprisingly he would rather not dance with beginners but stick with tried and tested partners where both can look good. Instead of looking at someone like Paul Warden dancing successfully with a beginner and thinking how clever that is, he is far more likely to not want to waste his time.

    Beginner leaders, on the other hand, can only lead what they know. Experienced followers already know what is expected in any pattern the beginner is capable of (unlike beginner followers) and they can make adjustments to make it work if their lead is off (like timing, bending the slot, anchoring etc). They can gradually add little variations up to the point at which they start to throw the leader, but if it goes wrong, the leader can reset to factory setting and begin again – very rarely do leaders fall apart in the way that beginner followers can, and basically pretty much whatever a basic leader does, an experienced follower can get a dance even if they are completely backleading it.

    I admire those who can get a good dance out of a beginner (leader or follower, jive or wcs) because there is real skill involved. Those who are good at it and nicely-mannered to boot can even make their partner feel that they danced better than usual– the flip side of that is that the beginner will ask them again because it will probably have been one of their highlights of the night...maybe the small numbers of wcs-ers around mean that the better dancers don’t want to help for fear of being forever lumbered!

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil_dB View Post
    I don't think the willingness to dance with beginners comes from whether you're Leading or Following. I think it comes from the nature of the individual.
    My theory is that both Moondancer and and yourself are putting a bit too much emphasis on disposition, when situational influences are significant:-

    One bloke I see around: Despite him knowing & chatting to a couple of beginner girls I also know, week after week he'll never ask them to dance. What's more, it's obvious he really doesn't want to either (he's even said he's going to stop going to a particular venue because (and I quote: "all the women there are cr*p.").

    Considering he's been doing WCS for 2.5 years, he's really not that great himself!
    I can give beginners a good dance. The problem is that the compromises necessary may set back both their dancing, as I smile and don't tell them what they're doing wrong / how frustrating it is.

    Essentially I'm ingraining bad habits by doing so (with thanks to Straycat - practice makes permanent ).

    And if I do it lots the better followers won't like the habits picked up.


    Following on from this it may be an excellent reason to go only to a venue where followers A) know their stuff and B) actually follow.


    It might be that he is suffering from having spent too much time at a venue where the followers are less well trained/willing to follow.

    Can a leader really get good at WCS without dancing primarily with good followers ?

    I see advanced & pros who are more than happy to dance with beginners, so surely it follows that intermediates like him REALLY aren't too good to be dancing with beginners either ....
    After watching Paul Warden dance with beginners, I would have thought the answer was almost definitely a resounding - YES
    On the other hand they're dancing is unlikely to be compromised by dancing (a small proportion of their dances ?), with beginners.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post

    I can give beginners a good dance. The problem is that the compromises necessary may set back both their dancing, as I smile and don't tell them what they're doing wrong / how frustrating it is.

    Essentially I'm ingraining bad habits by doing so (with thanks to Straycat - practice makes permanent ).

    And if I do it lots the better followers won't like the habits picked up.

    Following on from this it may be an excellent reason to go only to a venue where followers A) know their stuff and B) actually follow.
    And thus enhancing the reputation that some WCS dancers are elitist!!

    I'm sorry, but I find this attitude appauling. We were all beginners once and I seriously doubt would have progressed without encouragement from those more experienced.

    So beginners make mistakes - so what, essentially that's why they're beginners, but more experienced dancers make mistakes too. I can't see the problem with a helpful hint every now and again - you never know, they may appreciate it.

    Anyway... moving on. I came on to say how enjoyable and friendly I found Mel Boyle's class at Twickenham last night. Accepted that it was aimed at beginners and improvers, I found NO elitism in the room and a very welcoming atmosphere from all .

  18. #18
    Basically lazy robd's Avatar
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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    My theory is that both Moondancer and and yourself are putting a bit too much emphasis on disposition, when situational influences are significant:-
    Personally I think disposition and situation can sometimes form a pretty tight inter-relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    I can give beginners a good dance. The problem is that the compromises necessary may set back both their dancing, as I smile and don't tell them what they're doing wrong / how frustrating it is.

    Essentially I'm ingraining bad habits by doing so (with thanks to Straycat - practice makes permanent ).
    I am puzzled by your (implicit) assumption that compromises automatically lead to bad habits. It's not a viewpoint with which I concur.


    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Following on from this it may be an excellent reason to go only to a venue where followers A) know their stuff and B) actually follow.
    I don't see this as WCS specific. It's why many people go to (insert name of favourite MJ event) - in order to dance with a higher concentration of experienced and able partners.


    Quote Originally Posted by frodo View Post
    Can a leader really get good at WCS without dancing primarily with good followers ?
    Take away the word "primarily" and I'd say 'No'. You have to dance with people better than yourself in order to progress. In WCS this translates as dancing with those people able to better give you the 'feel' of the dance that makes it so rewarding.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    That Robd talks a lotta sense - great lead too


    --ooOoo--
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    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

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    Re: WCS - a newbie's perspective

    So second time at Mel and Pete's class last night and it was a good one although i had a couple of issues with my timings, but got them all ironed out at the end (thanks mel and donna). Cat's extending it for another 8 weeks, so that means there are now 9 monday nights left, which is nice. Everyone very friendly again and Mel is a bundle of bubbly delightful energy.

    One thing I feel is missing is that a lot of the time the move is done straight to a count after the footwork is quickly reviewed. Some of us numpty's would like to walk through it completely a couple of times to get the feel of it, then go to a count.

    Very enjoyable however although my brain did melt 3 dances into the freestyle.

    Had a private with Samantha B today. So hard not to shorten her name (typical welsh habit). Truly truly a fab teacher, everything has a reason, patient, she was born to do this. Learnt so much and so much to practise. Gutted can't make tonight at ArchAngel but will be there next week.

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