You're very welcome.Originally Posted by cederic
It's taken me the best part of a week (and a glass of vodka, tia maria and baileys - don't ask how I happened on that mix) to realise that Val & Dave are the ones that did the beginners' Blues class that cause this entire discussion, and indeed that Dave posts on this forum.
So a simple and honest thank you to them both. The class was excellent, and you can see the impact it's had
This has been said before and I actually disagree with it. Technique is the fundamental aspect of learning any dance and whereas this always forms a part of all levels of our Blues classes we also do concentrate on moves, and here's why.
Technique is useless unless you can apply it in form - and form in this case is the figure of a move. Learning technique and applying that technique to a move helps you to understand the effect of that technique. It assists in muscle memory and also practicing moves in real time gives you a much better understanding of how something you do affects your partner and, more crucially, their weight placement. The latter is critical in developing your lead because once you understand this you have a better understanding of what movement will create the right effect based on what your partner can most easily follow given which foot is 'loaded'.
Expression and spontaneity are a synergistic response to where the music leads you and these are the cornerstones of Blues dancing. Sometimes, as Chef quite rightly says, this may result in very little movement at all, but sometimes the music will lead you to express that 'feeling' in movement. This could be based on hearing instruments in the piece, or changes in colour, or even to the emotion that you can hear in the vocal. That's where learning technique and moves comes into it's own. If you have an understanding of both and have practiced them enough your muscle memory will take over allowing you to truly freeform your dancing. Whichever way your partner responds to your movement you will have an intuitive understanding of what to do next. It's like playing a musical instrument: the best musicians slavishly practice their technique - with guitar for example you practice arpeggios, scales and chord structure so that when it comes to improvising a lead all you need do is apply that emotion through your technique. And sometimes, just as in dancing, one note will do and will say all that you want to say and sometimes you will want to say much more. But without the groundwork your expression becomes limited and can also often result in frustration.
So my advice to you firstly, is to do as many classes as you can and within a short space of time you will start to understand what suits you best and will start to develop your own style of Blues. Moves are a framework for you to play with and they lie at the foundation of releasing your expression. Understanding the technique and applying it through moves that you have learned, or have adapted will lead to those truly special moments when you create something with your partner that transcends anything that you may have consciously 'learned'. I'm a great believer in the fact that you can learn something from every class you attend - as long as you are open to that possibility.
And secondly, of course, you have to get out there and dance as much as you can and with as many different people as you can. You also must never be afraid of asking better dancers to dance as they will teach you more about your lead and about how expression can come from giving space to your partner than any class could. And the weekender Chill Out/Blues rooms are the best place initially to do this as you can try all this in a very intense and concentrated period of time.
Good luck on your journey and I truly hope you find the freedom of expression and the joy that many of us have found within the realm of slower dancing.
I personally had one on one tuition from Val and Dave (in the comfort of my own living room and DVD player that isI can't afford the "real thing") prior to my 1st Dance at our recent wedding. Love bluesy dancing .. with Twirly that is. Cannot blues to save myself with anyone else
Caught V&D at Southport one of the few times I was there. great teachers (even on the flat screen!)
Dave, will you teach me that move you are performing on Val in Lory's latest Scorch video collage?
The importance of ampersands indeed
Well, we call that 2nd base and having seen you in your shorts over the w/e I can understand why it's a mystery to you...Dave, will you teach me that move you are performing on Val in Lory's latest Scorch video collage?
Ahh it does make me chuckle how folk insult someone then follow it up with flowers!Well, we call that 2nd base and having seen you in your shorts over the w/e I can understand why it's a mystery to you...
Anyway, after the bluesy dance I had with Rob last weekend I would say he is more than capable of getting past 2nd base without the need for your lessons Rocky
Pasty legs or not, I'll never get to 2nd base with Val given your tendency to cut the track short when I am dancing with herWell, we call that 2nd base and having seen you in your shorts over the w/e I can understand why it's a mystery to you...
It's not only the track you need to worry about me cutting if you ever have 2nd base on your mind...Pasty legs or not, I'll never get to 2nd base with Val given your tendency to cut the track short when I am dancing with her
I know you covet my carpet top but please Mr Thought Policeman just go to a wigmaker like anybody else to cover it up.
And you forgot your defusing flower so here, have two
That wasn't forgetfulness, that was intention.. and I don't need a wigmaker as I can get a rug like yours crocheted anyday...
And you forgot your defusing flower so here, have two
Last edited by Rocky; 28th-May-2010 at 09:35 PM.
This was actually one of the surprising things I learned in the class. The really slow dancing looks so simple and uncomplicated that more than one partner agreed with me that it was actually much harder than it looked.
None of the moves were in themselves complicated, but matching them to the music, the timbre of the dance (to misuse a term) and the balance of your partner was both difficult, and enlightening.
It's odd, but learning how to read my partner's weight distribution and use that to aid the lead in the blues class has made me a far better dancer at MJ - e.g. this week is the first time I've been able to lead steps forward/back in a basket position, it's never worked before because I've never properly accounted for my partner's balance and momentum.
So it's not just the opportunity to spend a song or two in a close hold
That's pretty much what most people realize when they start - getting the transitions right from close hold out to a move and then back in again is much more difficult than it looks. You can stop and start, but getting the weight distribution right so that you merge each movement into a flowing series of transitions does take practice.
That's why we use such simple moves to start with - there's little point teaching technique with a series of moves where you have to concentrate on learning the moves as well as the technique.
As with all forms of dancing the simplest moves executed well will lead to a far more satisfying expereince for you and your partner than complex moves executed badly!
Hmm blues .....
I've seen a few clips of it on YT and am wondering where the actual dancing is. It looks a bit like all style and no substance.
Maybe one of the AT cross over folk can explain it to me? Why would I want to dance like this when I could do the same sort of thing much more pleasurably in Argentine tango?
(Mr Bailey, maybe this is your chance to jump in?!)
agreed AT is much more pleasurable
BUT
Most MJ follows cant dance AT So at midnight, when the music starts to slow down, Blues is a nice option
Carl is running a blues clues this Tuesday in Brizzle
so why not give it a try
or visit Switch 10th December
Interesting you should say that... personally, I see it the other way around - there is far more focus on what I view as substance - technique, connection, muscial interpretation, self expression - than there is on style. What clips have you been watching?
Too kind...
Funnily enough, I was trying to persuade a Blues dancer to move to AT yesterday.
Why would you do blues instead of AT? Well, why do anything - because you enjoy it.
MJ Blues has a different posture, it's arguably more raunchy, and the music is different. So those are either plus or minus points.
Blues blues is not really something I can comment on, I don't know much about it.
That really depends on what you see as that 'sort of thing'. Do you mean - dance with all style and no substance? (which isn't the way I'd choose to describe AT)
While the two have some aspects in common, and people do very successfully bring some AT moves and ideas into blues, blues and AT are completely different
beasts, both visually and kinesthetically. And, as David Bailey has pointed out, there is the music. Loving the music makes a huge difference in one's enjoyment of any dance.
What I mean is that it seems to be a bit bump n grind. The emphasis being on the physical connection rather than the music. Whereas I would argue AT is about expressing the music. That drives everything else.
I know that may sound like I'm splitting hairs. But there it is.
Is blues dancing used at MJ weekenders for "end of the night" music? I'd got the impression it was a dance to itself. If it's just "end of the night", then , yes, I can see why you'd go to check out the blues room
Going to the Tango Feast in Devon that weekend .. but thanks for the heads up. Obviously if you cant do AT I can see that blues would be a good 2nd choiceagreed AT is much more pleasurable
BUT
Most MJ follows cant dance AT So at midnight, when the music starts to slow down, Blues is a nice option
Carl is running a blues clues this Tuesday in Brizzle
so why not give it a try
or visit Switch 10th December
Oh ho. There was quite a debate on this one not long ago - check out the Blues Baby Blues thread.What I mean is that it seems to be a bit bump n grind. The emphasis being on the physical connection rather than the music. Whereas I would argue AT is about expressing the music. That drives everything else.
I know that may sound like I'm splitting hairs. But there it is.
Is blues dancing used at MJ weekenders for "end of the night" music? I'd got the impression it was a dance to itself. If it's just "end of the night", then , yes, I can see why you'd go to check out the blues room
Blues is very much a dance in its own right, with a long distinguished pedigree, but what I'd term MJ blues is a bit different.
For blues dancing proper, in one respect it is exactly like AT, and that is the one you've highlighted - as with AT, it is very much about interpreting and expressing the music. There are a few clips out there which might lead one to dismiss it as 'bump and grind', yes, but don't be misled by that. It is an extremely skillful, extremely musical, highly connected dance.
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