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Thread: Is CEROC a Cult?

  1. #21
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    James Cronin did try and take on some of his early rivals back in the mid/late 80's. In particular Nicky Haslam when she took Ceroc to Australia. I think all or most of his challenges failed.

  2. #22
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Some of you have probably seen this. Nevertheless it is interesting. Sylvia Coleman was my first teacher.

    http://www.modernjive.com/history/timeline.html

  3. #23
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    Yes, but nearly 10 years before that when I began Ceroc there was almost no partner dancing anwhere. And it had almost completely died when Ceroc began in 1980.

    However, due to the finite nature of Ceroc (in that there is little or no footwork), many of the better Cerocers left to set up their own companies. Ceroc tried suing some of them. And lost fortunately. It is these that I refer to as rivals........ LeRoc, Lejive etc.
    Hmm... well the simplification and standardisation of the teaching system along with franchising is actually what sustained the Ceroc model. My own personal opinion based on actual experience of why people leave to set up independently is that 1.) they may feel they can do it better and don't want to be constrained by a convention and the system of teaching and/or 2.) just look at it as an opportunity to get some training, do some networking and then start their own night to avoid paying franchise fees.

    The former is aspirational and based on artistic values, the latter is just based on greed, which is why it's not received terribly well by the people who have invested time, effort and money in their training and given them access to their customer base...

  4. #24
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Agreed Rocky.

    As someone formerly associated with Ceroc HQ once told me Ceroc can be likened to BSM or JD Wetherspoon.

    If you want to learn to drive or drink in a nice pub you go to an independent. But if you want to learn how to be a driving instructor or learn how to run a pub or at least gain some good grounding go to BSM or Wetherspoons.

  5. #25
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    I am a Ceroc devotee. But must also confess that since about 2000 it has become much more of a corporate machine and less about teaching people how to dance in a convivial environment.

    That is not to say I don't enjoy my dancing and social side of things but there has been a change and not for the best I feel.

    As to being a cult that is harsh.

  6. #26
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    Yes, but nearly 10 years before that when I began Ceroc there was almost no partner dancing anwhere. And it had almost completely died when Ceroc began in 1980.
    This view is completely incorrect. As someone who started his partner dancing at a ballroom studio above the ABC in Harrow in 1977 I can confirm that partner dancing was very popular with ballroom schools in every town.

    However, there was no partner dancing in discos and night clubs of the time and you would think partner dancing had died if that's the only place you danced.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    .........However, there was no partner dancing in discos and night clubs of the time and you would think partner dancing had died if that's the only place you danced.
    Not 100% correct, my generation never stopped doing "French Jive" and "Rock 'n Roll" but mainly at main stream dances rather than discos. AND..... the French Jive that I did as a teenager, is very similar to the Modern Jive of today (which it would be as it derived from France)


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  8. #28
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prian View Post
    I am a Ceroc devotee. But must also confess that since about 2000 it has become much more of a corporate machine and less about teaching people how to dance in a convivial environment.

    That is not to say I don't enjoy my dancing and social side of things but there has been a change and not for the best I feel.

    As to being a cult that is harsh.
    I think your first line is a bit harsh!!!

    Surely core to Ceroc's business is teaching people how to dance in a convivial environment?!?!?

    Other issues about how the dance is taught and whether dancers want to seek out alternative teachers (who may not want to be restricted by Ceroc) has been dealt with in other threads.

  9. #29
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    anyone noticed that there is weird tendency within the CEROC-ites to attack those who do not embrace their one true MJ Faith..
    not really, no.

  10. #30
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadful Scathe View Post
    not really, no.
    ah - You should see the message I've just got from one of the muppets attatched to Neg Rep....


    If these guys (and it is mainly men..) think any comment that isn't dogamatically praising CEROC is somehow threatening then it's no surprise the number of regular cats posting has declined..

    I hope I never have the misfortune to meet them in the flesh as I'm sure the experience will be just as unpleasant..

    One of my friends got pared up with one at the Scottish champs lucky dip and said the experience made her skin crawl...

    Toodle-ooh dudes!

  11. #31
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    A good analogy would be the Mac or PC debate. Although the method or user experience of each might be different, both sides serve the same end goal. Yet the users of each develop a familiarity with their choice, and as pleasure is gained from it, this leads to loyalty to their preferred brand. For some, that loyalty is very strong, while others are happy to use what ever is available.

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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    ah - You should see the message I've just got from one of the muppets attatched to Neg Rep....
    Well, I'm sad to say it wasn't me. I still haven't got around to posting your negative rep yet, but thanks for yours and the attached insult!

  13. #33
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    ah - You should see the message I've just got from one of the muppets attatched to Neg Rep....
    I suggest such comments should be reported to the moderators. I understand they do moderator-y stuff on occasion. Although, obviously, they do this in an Evil CEROC Way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    If these guys (and it is mainly men..) think any comment that isn't dogamatically praising CEROC is somehow threatening then it's no surprise the number of regular cats posting has declined..
    The number of posts declined because I left.
    Whilst, possibly, the quality of posts improved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    One of my friends got pared up with one at the Scottish champs lucky dip and said the experience made her skin crawl...
    Because non-CEROC modern jivers are somehow inherently less skin-crawly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    Toodle-ooh dudes!
    Thank you for your contribution.

  14. #34
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    If these guys (and it is mainly men..) think any comment that isn't dogamatically praising CEROC is somehow threatening then it's no surprise the number of regular cats posting has declined..
    Oh, and just to re-iterate, my original comments had NOTHING to do with your attack on Ceroc. I simply pointed out that your statements about judging were wrong. Which they were

  15. #35
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    If these guys (and it is mainly men..) think any comment that isn't dogamatically praising CEROC is somehow threatening then it's no surprise the number of regular cats posting has declined..
    Dear Mr Wiz,

    I'm not one of those who defend Ceroc. Far from it. I rarely attend a Ceroc class and am very critical of many of the actions of Ceroc HQ.

    However, I'm one of the ones who disagreed with your criticism of the numbers in each heat at the Ceroc competition. Your criticism was wrong. I told you so and gave a reasoned argument explaining why you were wrong. Others did the same.

    Sometimes we are wrong. You were wrong. In this situation you do not criticise people and look for the things they have done wrong. You apologise for being wrong.

    Yours sincerely

    Andy McGregor

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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    He's probably talking about me as I said he was being a bit of a ****.

  17. #37
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    He's probably talking about me as I said he was being a bit of a ****.
    If you met him in real life I'm sure you'd get along just fine

    One of the things people do in here is express opinions. And people who disagree with those opinions are likely to post their disagreements. That's because a forum is where we debate things. Debate requires argument and counter-argument.

    In real life, especially at a dance night, we don't want an argument or even a debate. If someone expresses an opinion and we don't agree with it we're more likely to say something like "I must dance to this song and I owe that lady over there a dance".

  18. #38
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    One of my friends got pared up with one at the Scottish champs lucky dip and said the experience made her skin crawl...
    I suspect that being pared would do a lot more than just make your skin crawl...

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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    anyone noticed that there is weird tendency within the CEROC-ites to attack those who do not embrace their one true MJ Faith...

    Worse than the non-believers are the apostates and heretics of other MJ forms who must be singled out and destroyed lest they lead the good CEROC-ites away from the path of the blessed prophet ELLARD... who sends out his disciples to spread the word and root out the weak and doubting... and his deeds are praised to the heavens and his enemies smitten..

    Praise the lord and pass the ammunition!
    I think a lot of blokes hate Mike Ellard because he is very successful, clever and good looking as well, so there ha ha. My ex detested him, and almost hyper ventilated when I danced with him on a couple of occasions, but then he was an insecure egotistical pillock so what would you expect!

  20. #40
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    Re: Is CEROC a Cult?

    Quote Originally Posted by maximaxi View Post
    I think a lot of blokes hate Mike Ellard because he is very successful, clever and good looking as well, so there ha ha.
    This may not end well.

    Quote Originally Posted by maximaxi View Post
    My ex detested him, and almost hyper ventilated when I danced with him on a couple of occasions, but then he was an insecure egotistical pillock so what would you expect!
    That's a terrible thing to say about Mike... or, possibly, your choice in men.

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