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Thread: Scorch Question

  1. #21
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    Oh you amended your post while I was composing mine - how annoying
    Sorry, if I thought of more things to add when I read it back... is that an offence now that the Forum police need to crack down on??

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    No-one is disputing the gender balancing at Utopia events here so why bring it up?
    Err.... because you said this...

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    The only company that seem able to pull it off now is Rockbottoms.

  2. #22
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    You'll note I used the term AFAIK which means 'As Far As I Know' - so it wasn't a claim of absolute certainty. However, you are talking about remembering something that would have happened 5 years ago in 2005 (as Ceroc started in March 2006). Are you sure that JA didn't start after the first Ceroc weekender? Were you involved in JA's weekenders as an organizer then?

    And maybe it was because of Franco and Camber - but as I've said, if it was already established in the market then why was there such a discussion about it if JA were already doing it?
    Just for the record I've never had any involvement with JA other than being a regular customer.

    2005 is a long time ago but I have personal reasons for remembering events back then. Thinking harder I think Sept 2005 was in fact my 3rd JA Southport and the 4th event they had had there.

  3. #23
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Sorry, if I thought of more things to add when I read it back... is that an offence now that the Forum police need to crack down on??



    Err.... because you said this...
    Yes why not

    but we are talking about gender balancing at weekenders here

  4. #24
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    Yes why not

    but we are talking about gender balancing at weekenders here
    Yes, and Utopia run a weekender event called LUX which is gender balanced...

  5. #25
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Rock Bottoms w/e's are more expensive so the cost for ladies to book phantom men is more prohibitive - simples
    as is LUX

  6. #26
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question



    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  7. #27
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    as is LUX
    Yes, which is why you won't get ladies booking phantom men into their rooms... and why the gender balancing will have a better chance of working the way that it should.

  8. #28
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Ok, well thanks to DB for posting the original thread regarding gender balancing - and if you read it through you will see that there's not a single mention about JA having a published gender balancing policy in a thread that is soley devoted to gender balancing on weekenders. Better still, there is this quote from John of JA at the end..

    Quote Originally Posted by johnah View Post

    ...snip...It is a fact of life in the MJ world that more ladies than men participate. Another fact is that many more ladies than men tend to book weekenders and special events much much earlier than men!...snip..

    ...snip...It is simply impossible to achieve an equal balance of men and ladies, but it has not so far proved too difficult to maintain a reasonable balance....snip...
    Well, obviously I've cut out the rhetoric because John was using the opportunity to advertise his weekenders, but it very clearly infers that JA didn't have a published gender balancing policy as of Jan 2006. They may have applied conditions to create a 'reasonable balance' but of course the term reasonable is entirely subjective - for example, Franco seemed to consider that his gender balancing was reasonable, even if everyone else disagreed with him..

    Aaaanyway.. back to the topic. Yes, Ceroc would be happy to review any suggestions regarding managing gender balancing provided it was reasonable - but short of providing passport photos and ID at the time of booking, as has been mentioned (which would be clearly unacceptable to most people). I unfortunately don't see a way of achieving this in a fool proof way.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Minnie M's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Been looking at the old posts about Southport on here - cant find anything about them being gender balanced, mind you if they weren't didn't notice as I had a fab time anyway

    My post crossed with Rocky's


    --ooOoo--
    Age is a question of mind over matter, if you don't mind, it doesn't matter
    Leroy (Satchel) Paige (1906-1982)

    Mickey Mouse's girlfriend, Minnie, made her film debut, along with Mickey, in "Steamboat Willie" on November 18, 1928.
    That date is recognized as her official birthday.

  10. #30
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Rocky you discounted my view of Rockbottoms now being the only company to successfully achieve gender balancing at weekenders due to the high price. Yet you appear to want credit for your own hotel based weekender being gender balanced when the price is even higher.

    As for the quote from John I think you have been a little unfairly selective about what you have snipped. You missed out the bit where John says that he and Wes had tried to maintain a gender balance right from the outset. Naughty naughty!
    Last edited by Northants Girly; 17th-May-2010 at 03:45 PM. Reason: spelling

  11. #31
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    Rocky you discounted my view of Rockbottoms now being the only company to successfully achieve gender balancing at weekenders due to the high price. Yet you appear to want credit for your own hotel based weekender being gender balanced when the price is even higher.
    That's why serious topics should never be discussed on a public forum, because they become rather circular in nature. You said RB's were the only company to do it successfully, I explained why the price had an impact and also explained that they were not the only company where the price ratio works in this way to improve gender balancing. And yes the cost for LUX is even higher as it's a much better hotel!

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    As for the quote from John I think you have been a little unfairly selective about what you have snipped. You missed out the bit where John says that he and Wes had tried to maintain a gender balance right from the outset. Naughty naughty!
    I showed the relevant parts - and don't forget John was posting on a thread about gender balancing on a Ceroc weekender! Of course he's always going to suggest that they do the same, but despite that, it was clear from his post that they had no published policy on gender balancing at the time Ceroc took a stand on it. It was also clear from the thread that no members of the dance community seemed to be aware of a policy regarding gender balancing either. 'Tried to maintain a gender balance' and 'having a reasonable balance' is not the same as having a published policy on the issue. That's not to say people didn't enjoy their weekenders back then, but I think it's very easy to assume all sorts of things with the benefit of hindsight and rose tinted glasses...

    So, I'm glad to say I was right all along.. Ceroc were the first company to champion gender balancing on weekend events and to publish this fact.

    I thank you.

    Anyway, you can beat me up when we get to SP or you can have a dance as a consolation prize instead... but watch the face.

  12. #32
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    Re: Scorch Question

    I have got to agree with DB and rocky on this one. I dont think its Cerocs fault that women are forced into booking phantom men to get a dance weekender. ITs a matter of paying more and lying or staying at home.

    As am aside I do think women are superior and that men in general are the fault of most things in this life

  13. #33
    Registered User Northants Girly's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Anyway, you can beat me up when we get to SP or you can have a dance as a consolation prize instead... but watch the face.
    I needed a bit of a distraction today so no I thank you!

    Can I beat you up and have a dance?

  14. #34
    Registered User stewart38's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    I have got to agree with DB and rocky on this one. I dont think its Cerocs fault that women are forced into booking phantom men to get a dance weekender. ITs a matter of paying more and lying or staying at home.
    Just booked for 8p

    More then happy

  15. #35
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Northants Girly View Post
    I needed a bit of a distraction today so no I thank you!

    Can I beat you up and have a dance?
    LOL... well, apparently the best place to punch someone and hide the evidence is in the stomach as it bruises less easily than the rest of the body.. Although I'm likely to feel less inclined to dance with you if you've just duffed me in the muffin top..

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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    LOL... well, apparently the best place to punch someone and hide the evidence is in the stomach as it bruises less easily than the rest of the body.. Although I'm likely to feel less inclined to dance with you if you've just duffed me in the muffin top..
    We could all jump him when he's doing one of his sets. Picture the scene, there he is in the pub doing one of his frankly marvellous sets when he notices there's a crowd gathering. Suddenly he realises he's put on a 5 minute song and everyone around him is smiling insanely, then RUUUMMMMBBBLLLEEEEEE.

    Muffin top punches hurt, what you need is a spare tyre like me to take the real punishment.

  17. #37
    Registered User jive-vee's Avatar
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    LOL... well, apparently the best place to punch someone and hide the evidence is in the stomach as it bruises less easily than the rest of the body.. Although I'm likely to feel less inclined to dance with you if you've just duffed me in the muffin top..
    Simple answer then is to dance and then go for the punch

  18. #38
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Yes, and Utopia run a weekender event called LUX which is gender balanced...
    Sorry whilst I pick myself up off the floor....I was at Lux last year and it was far from gender balanced. In fact many guys were given free weekender passes on the basis that they turn up to classes in order to help ease the gender imbalance.

    Teachers were told to shout if they needed more male leads and crew would "find" men to step in....(I witnessed the Teacher tell the class this! Unfortunately he still did not get the quota he was after).

  19. #39
    The Dashing Moderator
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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I showed the relevant parts - and don't forget John was posting on a thread about gender balancing on a Ceroc weekender! Of course he's always going to suggest that they do the same, but despite that, it was clear from his post that they had no published policy on gender balancing at the time Ceroc took a stand on it. It was also clear from the thread that no members of the dance community seemed to be aware of a policy regarding gender balancing either. 'Tried to maintain a gender balance' and 'having a reasonable balance' is not the same as having a published policy on the issue. That's not to say people didn't enjoy their weekenders back then, but I think it's very easy to assume all sorts of things with the benefit of hindsight and rose tinted glasses...

    So, I'm glad to say I was right all along.. Ceroc were the first company to champion gender balancing on weekend events and to publish this fact.
    From the Wayback machine pages for JiveAddiction.com from April 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Jive addiction website in April 2005
    Apologies ladies, to maintain a good balance, we are currently taking bookings from mixed couples or men only. Please keep checking website for latest info. Reserve names being taken on 1st come 1st served basis.

    Going back a bit further
    we also have this about the Feb 2005 Scarborough weekend
    To keep ratio of ladies/men as balanced as possible - there's only a few places left for gentlemen or mixed couples. Sorry ladies
    Did they have a published policy with exact details? I dunno, maybe not. But it's clear that JA were publicly turning away bookings from women, which is pretty close in my book, since January 2005 and possibly even earlier.

    This was of course over a year before the 1st Ceroc Storm weekend in March 2006.
    Love dance, will travel

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    Re: Scorch Question

    Quote Originally Posted by rtwwpad View Post
    We could all jump him when he's doing one of his sets. Picture the scene, there he is in the pub doing one of his frankly marvellous sets when he notices there's a crowd gathering. Suddenly he realises he's put on a 5 minute song and everyone around him is smiling insanely, then RUUUMMMMBBBLLLEEEEEE.
    maybe someone should request PJ & Duncan, Lets get ready to rumble?

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