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Thread: shoulders, waists and hips

  1. #1
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    shoulders, waists and hips

    So last night I took advantage of the bank holiday to attend a new (to me) Ceroc venue, and thus a new teacher.

    Moves last night:
    - Armjive pushspin
    - Slo comb
    - Step across

    First teacher that's ever managed to get me to do the Slo Comb properly, so clearly a good bit of teaching there

    However, one thing that caught me out:
    The class was taught on the Comb, the lead should 'comb' their hair, then put their left hand on their partner's left shoulder (or upper arm).

    I was taught (in a Ceroc class, but also since elsewhere) to put my left hand on my partner's hip. So trying to come up to shoulder height feels both unnatural to me, and also makes it much harder for me to catch my partner's hand when we eventually dis-engage.

    Obviously I caused confusion amongst my less experienced partners by going with the hips route instead of the shoulders. So apologies to them for that.

    The teaching was however consistent:
    After the step across, the class were taught to do a return (so no surprises) and thus to catch the second hand out of the return ready for the armjive (again, no surprises). The instruction to leads was to run their right hand from their partner's left shoulder down the arm to catch the left hand.

    For me this caused a couple of problems
    - I've learned to run my hand around my partner's waist and along their forearm to catch their left hand out of a return, so going up to shoulder level feels frankly weird
    - if I start at shoulder level I find it far more difficult to bring that hand back down to waist level for the next move

    The teacher identified a different possible issue:
    - if the right hand is placed on the follower's back before their shoulder, the follower may interpret it as a block and stop turning

    I avoided that by going with instinct and what I knew, and joyfully I caused no confusion by coming in at waist level (and because I was thinking about it, found out that I quite often don't touch my partner on the waist at all but initiate contact just below the elbow and run down their forearm to their hand).

    So simple and silly questions: Is there a right/wrong approach to these things? Is it personal preference?

    I kind of assume that catching at shoulder height is to avoid distressing shy followers that may misinterpret waist/hip level contact, is that the main reason?

    For the record, absolutely no criticism with the teacher, I really enjoyed the venue and I'm thinking of popping back on Thursday (as I'm working from home due to the election). I'm just curious and confused.

  2. #2
    Registered User Lost Leader's Avatar
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    Re: shoulders, waists and hips

    There are quite a few variations on the comb. Different teachers will teach it different ways. There is no single "right" way - the right way is whatever seems most natural to you. It is worth trying out the variations though.

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    Re: shoulders, waists and hips

    re: the comb, it used to be taught to place the 'heel' of the hand on the ladies' hip and push away then the instructions were changed about 4 years ago to push away on the ladies upper arm instead. I sometimes teach the original way as a style alternative. I think it was dropped because of the risk of being jabbed with a thumb in the midriff and that some ladies felt uncomfortable with the man's hand going on her hip as occasionally they travel a bit too high for comfort (or the ladies' chest is lower than it should be.... )

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    Re: shoulders, waists and hips

    If I'm doing a class I'll try and follow exactly as they say as it makes it easier for people who're new to the move.

    However, there have been several differences in the teaching of the slo comb (personally I prefer the hip as it's easier to lead the lady away from that position - much harder when it's on the arm), and I've always stuck with the hip as it's much easier to lead and for the lady to follow...oh and I hate people grabbing on to my arm, so I'd not want to do it to the lady anyway. I've not seen the shoulder version taught, so can't comment on that one.

    Out of class, I'd say go with whatever works for you - there's usually a reason that you're taught one way, but if you're finding the way you do a move doesn't work, and have adapted it to work that ladies can follow, then go with that. As long as a move's easy to follow, personally I don't care if it's not been executed exactly to class, especially as there's so many moves I may never have learnt the one I'm dancing.

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    Re: shoulders, waists and hips

    Quote Originally Posted by jojiver View Post
    occasionally they travel a bit too high for comfort (or the ladies' chest is lower than it should be.... )
    I must be naive, it didn't even occur to me that might be an issue.


    Apart from that, good feedback (on here and elsewhere) of the 'obey thy teacher' form. I consider myself chastised.

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    Re: shoulders, waists and hips

    Quote Originally Posted by emmylou25 View Post
    personally I prefer the hip as it's easier to lead the lady away from that position - much harder when it's on the arm
    I always teach the comb with the palm heel on the hip. Sometimes I say that you need to use the front of the hip because it's like a jacking point on a car. The front of the hip has part of the lady's chassis directly behind it. This means that gentle pressure on the hip will stop the lady pressing forward and pressing her chest against yours. Why stop her? Some ladies treat you like a sex object and press their chest against yours and wriggle - us guys who want to be treated like thinking human beings must put a stop to such things

    I'm mostly speaking to the guys when I say that we all know we should avoid jacking a car on the soft bodywork: it pushes the body out of shape and results in financial pain at the garage. Likewise, you mustn't attempt to lead the lady with your hand on any part of the lady's soft bodywork that's not got part of her chassis underneath - this also results in pain!

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