Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 85

Thread: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

  1. #61
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    And (correct me if I'm wrong Andy), Britrock 09 had at least 3 of the same judges that will be at Blackpool.
    I'll take your word for it. I don't know who is judging at Blackpool. If they're 'phoning around competitors drumming up trade you have to wonder ...

    In my opinion the C2D Blackpool competition was the one to win if you were only going to enter one competition. It was the longest running competition and emerged as an honest competition after the scandal of the LeJive Competitions towards the end of the last millennium. Nowadays it's far from clear which competition is "the one to win".

    The Blackpool competition is in it's first year and is an unknown and the Weston Super Mare competition isn't running in 2010. With those 2 facts in mind I think that if you were only going to enter one national MJ competition in 2010 the field has narrowed to a choice between Ceroc and Britroc. And as they're nicely separated in calendar you don't need to choose and could enter both competitions.

  2. #62
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Stratford-upon-Avo
    Posts
    437
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Rocky - Who have i called drumming up business? And please let me know what my track record is?
    And lets be honest, if you were told to work with me by Mike, you would.

    Andy - who is having a go at Ceroc?

  3. #63
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,895
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Rocky - Who have i called drumming up business? And please let me know what my track record is?
    And lets be honest, if you were told to work with me by Mike, you would.

    Andy - who is having a go at Ceroc?
    Sorry meant to say, Facebooked mercilessly...

    Most people know what you're track record is and it's pointless me mentioning it here as it will just get deleted. But let's just say that your compitition is getting the support it deserves..

    I wouldn't work with you if my life depended on it - hopefully that's claer enough for you...

  4. #64
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Ceroc Champs

    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    Andy - who is having a go at Ceroc?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    Some turncoat
    Quote Originally Posted by Achaeco View Post
    I dont think competitions are being diluted per-say, i just don't think it does any good if they are all working on their own "individual" competition.
    Sounds like criticism to me. But Achaeco is right that he wasn't singling out Ceroc, just lumping them together with others who run their 'own "individual" competition'.

    It sounds like Achaeco is criticising all competition organisers for not working together. Before getting into any business relationship you have to trust those you are going to work with. One of the things that you look at is how they have behaved in previous business relationships. Let's consider the history of the characters we know about who are involved in the new, untried, Blackpool competition.

    Matt & Sue Henson* - Worked with a married couple on a Modern Jive business for many years and parted in a flurry of upset, accusations, statements, counter-statements and threats of legal action. The company ceased to exist and a new, and very similar company emerged from the ashes owned by Matt & Sue Henson and a new partner (see below). The other, and very upset, couple are well-known and well-liked by most people working in Modern Jive.

    John & Marianne Armstrong-Holmes* - Worked with a business partner and his wife on a Modern Jive business for many years and parted in a flurry of upset, accusations, statements, counter-statements and threats of legal action. John & Marianne emerged owning the company. The other, and very upset, couple are well-known and well-liked by most people working in Modern Jive.

    As Rocky says.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    I wouldn't work with you if my life depended on it - hopefully that's clear enough for you...
    *I'm not sure if the owner on paper is the couple of just one of them. But as they're married couples it's still an asset of the partnership.

  5. #65
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky View Post
    Most people know what you're track record
    Sorry Rocky, as a Special Constable in the Apostrophe Police I really couldn't let this one pass without comment.

    And while I'm here I thought I'd consider my feelings about the new Blackpool Competition.

    I'm in two minds. On the one hand I love competitions and would like to see every MJ competition succeed and prosper. I've put in many weeks, probably months, over the years preparing to compete and setting up and running competitons. And I've done it all because I love competitions.

    On the other hand, I'm very unhappy with the actions of the individuals involved in this competition. They have deeply upset some of my friends.

    In balance, I think I'd like to see the Blackpool Competition succeed because it's the competitors who do attend who will suffer if it's a flop.

    What I'm expecting to happen is that one of the couples will be true to previous form and the other couple will be part of the ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy McGregor View Post
    flurry of upset, accusations, statements, counter-statements and threats of legal action.
    Is anything more inevitable? And will anybody who knows the history show any sympathy?

  6. #66
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Glasgow West End
    Posts
    703
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    As for space - IMHO, the floor was large enough at the Troxy to accomodate about 10 couples comfortably, unfortunately, there were Lucky Dip rounds that had more, and at one point I had to spend a little time re-adjusting my line of dance as I'd been blocked off at both ends.
    I wonder if that's down to where you chose to dance on the floor. I didn't find any issues with space in the first few Lucky Dip heats - we were smack in the middle of the floor as well.

    I wonder whether people were crowding on certain areas due to a desire to escape the DVD?

  7. #67
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Princess Fi View Post
    I wonder if that's down to where you chose to dance on the floor.
    No problems for 1st half of dance, then a couple moved into my line leaving me blocked at both ends!!!

  8. #68
    Commercial Operator Rocky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    1,895
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by alinp View Post
    ....leaving me blocked at both ends!!!
    Nasty... epsom salts might help next time..

  9. #69
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Can't really say I had any problems with space on the dance floor during the Lucky Dip. Certainly no worse than the average freestyle night!

  10. #70
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Bracknell, United
    Posts
    194
    Rep Power
    8

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy Monkey View Post
    ........ no worse than the average freestyle night!
    No space, Trodden on, some guy aimlessly walking across the middle of the floor!!!!

  11. #71
    Registered User Billi Wiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Shields NE
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Ref - Ceroc judging

    Seems funny to me that the 15 couples dancing to one track can be judged fairly... doesn't that work out about 16 seconds to assess and review each couple? This was my last experience at the Troxy..

    I take it this wasn't the example you showed the Dance judging organisation..

    The way I see it you can either;
    • learn from customer feedback or,
    • you accuse the customer of being ignorant
    Your choice....

  12. #72
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    535
    Rep Power
    10

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    So let's assume you have six judges for a floor that size. That works out at each couple being assessed for over a minute and a half, which is a lot of dancing! As I'm sure you'll know from watching freestyle, it doesn't take long to separate good from bad in a large group. As any competitor knows, you have to pull out the best moves, style and musicality when a judge is watching you. They are giving you a mark based on what they see at a given time, not your performance over the whole track. That's one of the reasons why there can be such a disparity between judges' marks. Consistency is important if you want to win.

    As for learning from customer feedback, I think it's fair to say that the customer is not always right...!

  13. #73
    The Forum Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    10,672
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    Ref - Ceroc judging

    Seems funny to me that the 15 couples dancing to one track can be judged fairly... doesn't that work out about 16 seconds to assess and review each couple? This was my last experience at the Troxy..
    And what are we comparing this to? Last time I was at Blackpool comp (and every other time I've been there), there were far more than 15 couples on the dancefloor for the 1st rounds of the DWAS. Same could be said at the Scotland and Bristol comps (I've never been to Britrock).

    This also applies to the first rounds intermediate section at all the above comps too, which always attract the biggest numbers of competitors.

    Speaking as someone who has actually judged (have you?) at competitions, I've not often found that I've needed more time. Although the one time at the Ceroc champs where the judges did say they needed more time, more music was played. There have been plenty of times where I've finalised my decisions before the end of tracks, although (obviously) you keep watching, just in case anyone pulls something special out of the bag....

    So, was there a point to your comments about the Ceroc champs specifically, when all the championships I've been to (well, in this country) are the same?

  14. #74
    Registered User Billi Wiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Shields NE
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    "As for learning from customer feedback, I think it's fair to say that the customer is not always right...!"

    I've worked in business for twenty years and that is the most blinkered, stupid reply I've ever heard..

    Have you considered a career with one of the large Call centre companies - you'ld fit in perfectly!

    I made some points about how i feel the CEROC UK competition could be improved to bring customers like me back..

    If that is somehow perceived as erroneous or an attack then you need to get out more...

  15. #75
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    Seems funny to me that the 15 couples dancing to one track can be judged fairly... doesn't that work out about 16 seconds to assess and review each couple?
    I wasn't at the competition so I could be wrong. My guess is that the heats had 15 couples on the floor but that the finals had less.

    In the heats the job of the judges is to promote competitors to the next round. The decision is between promote and not promote. There's no need to score competitors or rank them as the only thing that is required is promotion. It is relatively easy for a judge to decide which dancers to promote and 6 judges would have no difficulty working out who to promote from 15 competitors.

    In the final there is a requirement to rank competitors. This is much more complex than a simple decision between promote/not promote. Therefore the final has less competitors.

  16. #76
    The Forum Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    10,672
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    "As for learning from customer feedback, I think it's fair to say that the customer is not always right...!"

    I've worked in business for twenty years and that is the most blinkered, stupid reply I've ever heard..

    Have you considered a career with one of the large Call centre companies - you'ld fit in perfectly!

    I made some points about how i feel the CEROC UK competition could be improved to bring customers like me back..

    If that is somehow perceived as erroneous or an attack then you need to get out more...
    It's quite obvious that the customer is not always right. This is the most trite, incorrect, and personally (I find) most annoying sentence trotted out by people who want to appear that they give a damn, when my suspicions are that they don't really.

    When you have 2 different customers with totally different ideas about what is the correct procedure, then obviously, they cannot both be right. The trick is in deciding which opinion you should base your decisions upon, and in putting forward your decision to the customer that you disagree with in a way that they either change their mind to agree with you, or at least come to accept why you have made the decisions that you have made.

    Your points were made in, quite frankly, a way that sounded derogatory towards the way Ceroc run the champs, so, if you are going to make your points in that way, then you have to accept that there may be derogatory remarks made about your comments. If you put forward your point of view in a way that sounds less biased, then you may generally get less umbrage taken against them.

  17. #77
    The Oracle
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    2,263
    Rep Power
    13

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    No of competitors on the floor

    It is not necessarily better for the judges to have fewer couples on the floor in the early rounds. How many you have really depends on the marking scheme.

    • If we have to give each couple a mark, then you can have a max of 15 couples for one full track. We also ideally need time to make a quick note on each couple (ie what they are wearing) so that we don't have to wait to see the number on the man's back. This needs to be before the music starts.
    • If we have to give a separate mark across different criteria (technique, musicality etc) then you have to reduce the number. For 2 criteria you can get away with 10 couples, for 4 criteria it would be 6 couples.
    • If we have to mark both the leaders and followers separately, then you can have a max of 8 couples.
    • If we have to select 'x' couples to go through, then you can have more couples on the floor - maybe 20 – because we are just saying yes or no.
    • If you have the 'tap on the shoulder to go through' system, then you can have quite a lot more - maybe 30 couples. This is because you get rid of the good couples throughout the song, so all you are doing is picking the best couple on the floor at any time, and a couple of reserves in case another judge taps your selection.

    It is not just the marks we give - it is also how we compare across heats.
    • Having more couples in each heat should make the standard in each heat more average (ie less chance on one heat being far stronger than the others). If each heat is judged independently, then having a particularly strong or weak heat is a bit unfair to the competitors.
    • If we are judging the whole round at a time, then fewer heats makes life easier. ('Was my 11th couple from Heat C better than by 10th couple from Heat A or Heat B?' is reasonably easy. 'Was my 4th couple in Heat J better than my 3rd couple in Heats A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H or I?' is pretty difficult, especially as Heat A would have been about 40 minutes ago, and some of the heats might be strong or weak.)

    If you have more tracks per heat, then you can have more couples in each heat, but it doesn’t necessarily scale. After a while you get the problem of remembering who you have judged and who you haven’t.

    Being able to judge this quick only really applies when you have a big difference in the standard of dancers. You almost always get this in Intermediate and DWAS. If I am marking couples through and there are a lot of couples on the floor, I try to put them into 3 groups – A, B and C. Group A are the ones I think are obvious to go through. Group C are the ones that are obviously out. Group B are the ones in the middle. I concentrate on Group A first, as my biggest responsibility is to ensure that the good couples go through. I then concentrate on Group C, as this makes the next stage easier. I try to get the grouping finished by the end of the first chorus, which should give me about 70% of the track to look in detail at each couple in group B. Again I try to split the group up into 3 (B+,B and B-). I want to spend the most time looking at people who are on the brink. A good or bad couple will might get less than 5 seconds, but if you are on the brink you might get 30 seconds. (I can usually spot a good couple in about a second.) This is also the time when I try to compare with the previous heats, if required.

    If I am giving each couple a mark out of 10, then the time is split more evenly across the couples, but I will still try to give those couples on the brink a bit more time.

    I also try to leave myself a few seconds at the end to double check the people I’ve marked through, and to make sure I haven’t missed anything.

    Other things that help the judges
    • Big numbers (a font size of at least 240), printed black on white, on card, and with at least 2 and preferably 4 safety pins. If we can’t see the number then you have to be really good for us to find out.
    • Judging sheets pre-printed with the numbers of the people in the heat (and preferably the names and descriptions).
    • Clear description on the sheet of what we are supposed to do (eg recall 20 from 40 across 4 heats of 10, or mark each couple out of 10, or rank each couple from 1st to 6th)
    • Consistent music across the heats, and variation form one round to the next.
    • If there is more than one track per heat, then there should be a variation in genre and tempo.

  18. #78
    Commercial Operator
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Sussex by the Sea
    Posts
    9,276
    Rep Power
    15

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTramp View Post
    It's quite obvious that the customer is not always right. This is the most trite, incorrect, and personally (I find) most annoying sentence trotted out by people who want to appear that they give a damn, when my suspicions are that they don't really.

    When you have 2 different customers with totally different ideas about what is the correct procedure, then obviously, they cannot both be right.
    As I've never posted off-topic I thought I'd create a new thread to answer this one. It's here.

  19. #79
    Registered User Billi Wiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    South Shields NE
    Posts
    115
    Rep Power
    9

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    You CEROC dudes need to chill out... every comment that isn't praise is treated like some kind of emotional H Bomb...

    Feedback helps good business to finess the service they supply to ensure the maximum cutomer enjoyment of the product..

    Behaving like Basil Fawlty with a hotel full of germans everytime someone points out where they feel improvement could be made is paranoid to the extreme...

    CEROC is a Dance form of Modern Jive not a Cult!

    ....& Mike Ellard is not the Messiah!!

  20. #80
    The Forum Legend
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Nottingham
    Posts
    10,672
    Rep Power
    14

    Re: Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Billi Wiz View Post
    You CEROC dudes need to chill out... every comment that isn't praise is treated like some kind of emotional H Bomb...

    Feedback helps good business to finess the service they supply to ensure the maximum cutomer enjoyment of the product..

    Behaving like Basil Fawlty with a hotel full of germans everytime someone points out where they feel improvement could be made is paranoid to the extreme...

    CEROC is a Dance form of Modern Jive not a Cult!

    ....& Mike Ellard is not the Messiah!!
    I assume you mean me, since I'm the only person who works for Ceroc who has posted since you made your post.

    And I simply pointed out that your comments about the Ceroc champs could have been made about all of the champs that I've been to in this country (although that doesn't mean that Ceroc can't, or won't improve what they are doing in a different way to all the other champs of course). And that the tone of your comments was maybe a little misguided. And in response, you've now you're going completely over the top.

    So, just to make it clear, I wasn't posting in response to your comments in any official category, or in any way representing Ceroc. You are, of course, right, good, logical and well thought-out comments are useful to any business in moving forward. However, comments that look like they are made to disparage any organisation are usually met with a defensive or argumentative response, and not necessarily from someone representing that organisation. Perhaps the fault doesn't lie only (or at all) in my response, but in your original post?

    It should also be noted that where I've felt in the past that Ceroc can improve, I have also left comments regarding that (which has previously caused me hassle from some within the Ceroc team), although, to be honest, I am generally of the opinion that the majority of things that Ceroc do are positive and good for the dance.

    And of course he's not the Messiah, he's just a very naughty boy!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Lost my ceroc cards
    By dave the scaffolder in forum Chit Chat
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 13th-January-2009, 01:25 PM
  2. Simply Ceroc weekender, Wellington
    By LilyB in forum Social events
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 30th-November-2008, 01:39 AM
  3. Ceroc Champs 07. The results and the aftermath
    By tiger in forum Social events
    Replies: 177
    Last Post: 29th-May-2007, 11:41 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •