Ceroc Champs 2010 - Results

[Billi Wiz]

I wasn't entirely surprised to hear how quiet it was.. We gave it a miss this year..

We were there a few times and found;

• the venue too expensive (Bottled water at ridiculous prices..)
• The door staff a pain (confiscating water etc.) - If it's a threat from terrorists how come no-one else does this?
• The venue poorly ventiliated
• The Judging (let's be kind..) puzzling!!
• The heats too crowded (at Blackpool they do 6 couples at a time!)
• The DVD in 2008 was appalling quality with most of the heats missing and only half the stage visible at any time...

I guess in the "Credit-crunch" UK we expect something a wee bit better for our pennies..

Oh & This isn't an anti-ceroc thing - Franck runs a FAB contest in Scotland.

[rtwwpad]

Comments inline

I wasn't entirely surprised to hear how quiet it was.. We gave it a miss this year..

We were there a few times and found;

• the venue too expensive (Bottled water at ridiculous prices..) - free tap water can be gotten at the bar
• The door staff a pain (confiscating water etc.) - If it's a threat from terrorists how come no-one else does this? - not really, as far as I am aware as a licensed venue you are responsible for the consumption of liquor on your venue. Who knows if your 1 litre bottle of water contains vodka.
• The venue poorly ventiliated - Massive fans this year.
• The Judging (let's be kind..) puzzling!! - really? I can't comment but it seems to work itself out. You'd be amazed at the logistics that have to go on. 1- 2 mistakes is acceptable. Everyone strives for perfection.
• The heats too crowded (at Blackpool they do 6 couples at a time!). - Wow, do they not get as many entrants or categories? Its all run to a tight schedule and as many people are given the chance to enter as possible.
• The DVD in 2008 was appalling quality with most of the heats missing and only half the stage visible at any time... - Can't comment, Graham W has this years, perhaps he could.

I guess in the "Credit-crunch" UK we expect something a wee bit better for our pennies.. - like what? I'm quite up for attractive ladies in skimpy costumes, good DJ's and fun freestyle.

Oh & This isn't an anti-ceroc thing - Franck runs a FAB contest in Scotland.

[Achaeco]

Comments inline

For the record -

1) At Blackpool we allow ample space for our competitors to be judges fairly, we think 6 per round is a good figure for the judges to get round.

2) At Blackpool we have (for the past 5 years i have been involved) in excess of 400 dancers attending.

3) All of our categories are on our website, feel free to have a look to compare.

[Rocky]

For the record -

1) At Blackpool we allow ample space for our competitors to be judges fairly, we think 6 per round is a good figure for the judges to get round..

Just as rtwwpad says, that can only mean you don't get many competitors.. At The Champs there were 120 couples just in the lucky dip. So, that would mean running 20 first rounds at 6 per round! The number of judges as a proportion to dancers is what matters, not the number of couples on the floor.

2) At Blackpool we have (for the past 5 years i have been involved) in excess of 400 dancers attending..

So, what's that 80 a year..

[Dreadful Scathe]

For the record -

1) At Blackpool we allow ample space for our competitors to be judges fairly, we think 6 per round is a good figure for the judges to get round.

2) At Blackpool we have (for the past 5 years i have been involved) in excess of 400 dancers attending.

3) All of our categories are on our website, feel free to have a look to compare.

1) lack of numbers allow you to do that, buttering it up as "the fairest system" , while true, is merely convenient
2) is it going down or up? im interested. I prefer the lower numbers and Im not comparing to Ceroc as I thought Ceroc was far too busy, the one time I went many years ago. Though that was as much the venue - hammersmith - as it had a small floor and massive obscuring palm trees. Only personal circumstances have prevented me going back though.
3) alas, your website is an affront to the internet and human beings should never visit it.

[alinp]

Rocky - play nice now Most of us who compete just want to know we'll be judged fairly and have the opportunity (including sufficient space) to display our abilities. As a judge, I'm sure you'd agree. Can't imagine anything worse for you than a packed dance floor and not knowing where to look.

As for space - IMHO, the floor was large enough at the Troxy to accomodate about 10 couples comfortably, unfortunately, there were Lucky Dip rounds that had more, and at one point I had to spend a little time re-adjusting my line of dance as I'd been blocked off at both ends.

[Achaeco]

Just as rtwwpad says, that can only mean you don't get many competitors.. At The Champs there were 120 couples just in the lucky dip. So, that would mean running 20 first rounds at 6 per round! The number of judges as a proportion to dancers is what matters, not the number of couples on the floor.



So, what's that 80 a year..

Silly man - Judges need to be able to see all dancers on the floor, clearly it does matter; did Ceroc have masses of Judges on the floor. I think not.

[Rocky]

Silly man - Judges need to be able to see all dancers on the floor, clearly it does matter; did Ceroc have masses of Judges on the floor. I think not.

Derr.... for the mass rounds, yes they did - and anyway how would you know, you weren't there! Besides, Ceroc's judging system was scrutinized by an International external adjudicator this year and was given an accreditation for it's judging system that no other MJ dance event currently has. So, ummm... I think you'l find that you don't actually know what you're talking about..

.....I think not.etc

...3) alas, your website is an affront to the internet and human beings should never visit it.

So true!

[Gus]

Re Judges ... though C2D used to have the ascendancy .... I'm not so sure these days. Although you can't argue nwith the credentials of S&N and Phil .... some of the others look a bit out of place in a Modern Jive Competition. Other than that, personal view entirely, I'm not convinced by so many of the judges having a WCS bent .... is this deliberate?

[Gerry]

Re Judges ... though C2D used to have the ascendancy .... I'm not so sure these days. Although you can't argue nwith the credentials of S&N and Phil .... some of the others look a bit out of place in a Modern Jive Competition. Other than that, personal view entirely, I'm not convinced by so many of the judges having a WCS bent .... is this deliberate?

Sorry GUS, which Judges are you talking re have a WCS bent??

[Gerry]

Besides, Ceroc's judging system was scrutinized by an International external adjudicator this year and was given an accreditation for it's judging system that no other MJ dance event currently has.

Rocky
Who was or is this International external adjudicator and what links does it have to MJ.

[Gus]

Sorry GUS, which Judges are you talking re have a WCS bent??

Simon and Nicole, Lindsay, James Mc. I think even Phil has been know to put a "3 & 4" step in now and again Fair comment?

[Filthy Monkey]

Simon and Nicole, Lindsay, James Mc. I think even Phil has been know to put a "3 & 4" step in now and again Fair comment?

Not really! Simon and Nicole are well known within the MJ world for their achievements and are qualified Ceroc teachers. James has a strong background in various different styles, including MJ and WCS. In fact, didn't he win Strictly Dance Fever at one point? Lyndsay has a definite WCS bias these days, but her background has always been MJ and I don't think I've ever heard Phil Webb and WCS mentioned in the same sentence, but he does have a solid background in modern jive. From a competitor's perspective, I'd say it looks like a pretty good judging panel...

With regards to the Ceroc champs, I think the judging was excellent this year, particularly in the Advanced and Showcase categories! Okay, all joking aside, I watched the Intermediate, Open and Ceroc X finals and I can honestly say that, while I couldn't always separate them, I placed the same, top, two or three couples as the judges. There was no obvious favouritism. Those who won absolutely deserved their placings!

[Achaeco]

I'm not sure why you feel you need to try and wind people up Rocky, all i do is sit and laugh at you.
It would be good to find out who this "international Moderator" is, maybe they could help all the competition organisers work together on a national ranking system. Its something i have been trying to do for two years.

I have no problem working with any organiser, i have offered my hand in helping promote the Welsh Champs (this has been accepted) and i have sat with Mike to talk about the competition scene.

Just think, if we could get it sorted we could be working together

Gus - You need to check your facts before submitting your posts. Its generally a good idea to have a mixture of judging styles, all of whom have proven themselves within Modern jive far more than you have.

[Gus]

Gus - You need to check your facts before submitting your posts. Its generally a good idea to have a mixture of judging styles, all of whom have proven themselves within Modern jive far more than you have.

Sorry ... not exactly sure what facts need to be checked. S&N do have a strong WCS influence, evident when I had a private with them. Messr James is best known for his line dancing/WCS background ... so could you articulate the area where you think my comment was erroneous.

PS .. not sure that I had to prove anything in MJ

PPS ... I'm not sure what your expertise is on the subject of dance expertise .... care to share?

[Achaeco]

Sorry ... not exactly sure what facts need to be checked. S&N do have a strong WCS influence, evident when I had a private with them. Messr James is best known for his line dancing/WCS background ... so could you articulate the area where you think my comment was erroneous.

PS .. not sure that I had to prove anything in MJ

PPS ... I'm not sure what your expertise is on the subject of dance expertise .... care to share?

Lindsay Brown has won many MJ titles JM has won Mj Titles - Fact, you should check their websites.
To question another dancer ability to judge who have dedicated themselves to MJ and other dances alike is just a bloody cheek. One would assume that for you to do that, you would have experience in judging or at least winning the odd top category.

My expertise is learning from as many dancers as i can, attending as many competitions as i can (spectating), i am fantastic at organising events, i'm good to get on with (always helps), i listen to people, i give people what they want, I teach excellent Advanced workshops with my wife (so i'm told (by you in fact after you attended one).

For me it's not about "me" dancing, i love to see dance, i love to see people having so much fun and i respect the dancers so much for their dedication, regardless of ability. I would never question anyones ability.

[Achaeco]

I thought this was a Ceroc Champs thread. Mods, delete it all and leave the Champs stuff.

[Andy McGregor]

I thought this was a Ceroc Champs thread. Mods, delete it all and leave the Champs stuff.

No, please leave it all here. It's the most interesing thread I've seen for ages. Gus has a go at whatever the new Blackpool competition is calling itself. Some turncoat who used to be friends with the voice of MJ in Blackpool has a go at the Ceroc Champs. Rocky defends the Ceroc champs. Oh and someone, I forget who, says the Blackpool judges are mostly WCS dancers

And I've not got an opinion. Apart from saying "well done" to Ceroc for having an external adjudicator on the payroll. Britrock used one of those for a few years and they are quite expensive. However, they now have a much more handsome adjudicator who works for 2 days, all day and night in exchange for free pizza, jelly beans and the occasional hug from Gordon Pownall

[alinp]

No, please leave it all here. It's the most interesing thread I've seen for ages. Gus has a go at whatever the new Blackpool competition is calling itself. Some turncoat who used to be friends with the voice of MJ in Blackpool has a go at the Ceroc Champs. Rocky defends the Ceroc champs. Oh and someone, I forget who, says the Blackpool judges are mostly WCS dancers

And I've not got an opinion. Apart from saying "well done" to Ceroc for having an external adjudicator on the payroll. Britrock used one of those for a few years and they are quite expensive. However, they now have a much more handsome adjudicator who works for 2 days, all day and night in exchange for free pizza, jelly beans and the occasional hug from Gordon Pownall

And (correct me if I'm wrong Andy), Britrock 09 had at least 3 of the same judges that will be at Blackpool.

Plus... I'm sure I saw Phil Webb judging at Ceroc Champs!!!

[Rocky]

I'm not sure why you feel you need to try and wind people up Rocky...

Err... do you think it might be because you started this thread with the sole purpose of promoting your event. And deny it if you can, but haven't you also been ringing the competitors up to try and get them to come to your event because your losing money...

It would be good to find out who this "international Moderator" is..

The International Dance Sport Judges and Trainers Association scrutinised the Ceroc Champs judging system. After a couple of meetings and a full review they approved the model and agreed for Ceroc to effectively advertise their endorsement.

These guys oversee the Blackpool Ballroom and Latin competitions and many other major competitions and they also had representative present at the event.

Just think, if we could get it sorted we could be working together

Not a chance based on your track record...