You are so right MarkW, but JayJay is a briliiant follower so it's me that needs to put in most of the work. My game plan is: First of all doing 5k run in July (one of the nurses at work got me roped into that), but training for that should improve my stamina, go to weekly lessons as a lead and do some workshops at weekenders with JayJay, lastly try not to take it too seriously and have fun
You were brilliant on Sunday by the way, I did write a long review but stupidly did it straight on the forum instead of cut and paste - result timed out and when I logged on again, all my review had gone
. Went out and had fun instead of rewriting
Can't believe there are venues that are so anti-role reversal. The venues around me frequently have women learning to lead, mostly to address the constant imbalance we have with a shortage of men. Heck, even on nights where the balance is pretty equal, women still lead. Heck, I've seen a couple of women who lead double-trouble dances.
And the hilarity when two of the guys dance together and one tries to lead the other... priceless! Some of them are pretty good, to their credit!
So yes, if you're finding such opposition at your venue, it's time to start searching for a better venue. That surely isn't the norm??
I totally agree Mike.
In fact as the girls learn to lead their following actually improves and vice versa when men learn to follow their leading improves.
As for men dancing with men, I have done it a few times. Mostly with one James Crofts (now a teacher I believe), where i would lead and we would include a "half tumble." We were also lead in double trouble with his wife.
I've looked at their website and created a thread with a poll. Take a look here.
Back where I were a-learnin' to jive, Mick and Phil at Cambridge (Mondays and Wednesday nights) were both perfectly capable of teaching four moves in 40 minutes AND making sure we learnt etiquette, style, alternatives (for dips, e.g.), and basic elements, as well as floor craft (not banging in to other dancers), and leading tips for male beginners. Plus, they both had stage presence in bucket loads. (Good job, really, as it was only 12" above the dance floor.)
It wasn't until I moved away and went to other dance classes all over the country that I found other teachers who could hardly manage three moves in 50 minutes, let alone teaching style as well.
Are three moves really all that is taught now? Is that beginners or intermediate or both?
I really have been out of the scene for a while.
I only ever knew 3 moves to be taught in the intermediate class and then only if things were running late or combination moves were included.
Imagine a pub landlord puts up a 'no poofs' sign.
"I've got nothing against the gays personally, it's just that all my customers are homophobic. If I let gays in here the customers would threaten to knock their blocks off. So my reaction isn't based on me being homophobic, it's based on experience and common sense."
I don't think that would stand up in court, and I think you are opening yourself up to lawsuits.
Most gay men wouldn't want to cause a fuss and so would either stick to same-sex classes or would dance as leads. But remember the case of the Christian B&B? The rumour was that Stonewall deliberately sent in gay customers (who wouldn't normally have gone there) in order to provoke a legal prosecution. I could easily see them doing the same for dance classes.
I'm also amazed that feminist groups haven't sued Ceroc for their "the lady follows" commandment. It may not be actually enforced but it is on all their printed literature.
I can't see it, really. It's not discrimination if gender is an inherent part of the "job spec".
I'm amazed that no-one's sued Ceroc for infringement of the trades description act - have they seen the average quality of following from ladies at a Ceroc night?
By the way, welcome to the forum hafdhgdfa. That's an... interesting name you've got there![]()
I can't. What a waste of time that would be. The B&B lawsuit was because a gay couple were shown the door, that has never been the case in any ceroc (or independant) class has it ? There is an expectation that different sexes dance with each other im some locations, in others, perhaps less so, that is surely up to the organiser to look for. There is nothing to stop couples standing out to practice, I have done so many times when practicing for a competition because I didnt want to dance with other people at all. You cant make other people dance with you and i have seen people drop out when someone they simply dont like dancing with comes round. It has to do with all sorts of preferences in who they want to get UCP with. I don't think a man or women not being comfortable dancing with the same sex is necessarily bigoted.![]()
I have danced with men on a number of occasions. Both leading and being lead. Admittedly it was just for fun, but nobody ever made comment (perhaps because they knew we were not serious, I don't know). Usually I did this in an Evangelical Church in South Kensington (on Fridays it was a Ceroc venue, but most of the dancers were church members).
This shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation. There is a huge difference between drinking in the same building and holding someone in the embrace of the closed hold. I do not believe any judge or magistrate would uphold a complaint that a man or woman refused to embrace another member of same sex at a dance class - especially if that person was a total stranger. Furthermore, I do not believe that judgement would go against a dance teacher refused to let the situation arise where a man might be expected to embrace another man as part of his/her lesson.
Firstly, I'd like to remind people that I was one half of the first same-sex couple to win a medal at a national modern jive competition. I am not against women learning to lead or men learning to follow. And I'm not against same sex couples. However, I am for choice. And I believe one of those choices is that men should be able to choose if they dance with another man. Allowing a man to line up as a follower removes this choice.
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