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  1. #1
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    Stop calling me a man!

    So, I’m learning to lead, or as they continually annoyingly say at my local class I’m learning to be a man.

    I’ve gotta say, the amount of resistance I’ve received from the teachers and some of the men has been bordering on unacceptable. Funnily enough, the women I’m dancing with seem perfectly fine with it and some have said I’m the best man in the room. (I think that’s supposed to be a compliment).

    To name a few, these are some of the comments I’ve received from teachers and men.

    Week 1

    Male demonstrator “Why are you learning to be a man?”
    Me “Because I’m bored of following and wanted to learn something new…by the way, I’m not learning to be a man, I’m learning to lead”
    Male demonstrator “Of course you do realise that all the women in the room think you’re a raving lesbian”
    Me “Have any of the women actually said that?”
    Male demonstrator “No, I just know that’s what they will be thinking”

    Week 2

    Female Demonstrator “You’re on the wrong side”
    Me “No I’m learning to lead”
    Female demonstrator “Why do you want to be a man? If you lead they’ll be men over and they’ll get all confused”
    Followed by unnecessary tutting and huffing as she has to move ONE man round.

    Week 3

    Men over again so I’m sitting down waiting for the rotation to take my turn as a lead. A man comes over and offers me his hand, thinking I’m a follower waiting for a leader.

    Me “It’s men over, not women, I’m leading”
    Man “Well get up then and then you won’t have to be a man, you can be a woman”
    Me “No thanks, I’m learning to lead, you’ll have to join me in the queue”
    Man looks at me with disgust “Oh suit your bloody self then” and sods off to the bar outraged that for the first time in years there are men over and refuses to join in.


    Even the organiser is looking at me with suspicion. Gav thinks the organiser suspects I’m using his classes to learn to lead so I can be a dance teacher elsewhere. I’m not, but even if I was, what difference does it make?

    I don’t want to give up learning to lead. I’m really enjoying it, but I’m starting to get the hump with the ignorant comments. Hopefully they’ll stop when they realise I’m not giving up trying.

  2. #2
    Registered User daveb9000's Avatar
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    It seems to depend on the venue. My wife frequently leads in the Beginners' class (and occasionally Intermediate), as do a number of other women, and it seems to be fairly common in Edinburgh (maybe due to the lack of men). However, when we attended a Ceroc class in London while on holiday, and another in Manchester, it seemed alien to them for a woman to be leading and many of them seemed quite uncomfortable with it. As a side point, we also sometimes see men leading men during free style and no one seems to have a problem with it. I certainly don't make any assumptions over sexual orientation based on it.

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    ahh, i think im going to have to come home with you Tuesday nites and go dancing. Sounds like fun. If i go with you, lead as well, can you imagine the gossip.. ooh we got two raging lesbians at our club. LOL.

    What a crock. Silly old rude bastards.

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    raving lesbian
    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    raging lesbians
    What I want to know is what's the difference between a raving/raging lesbian and a standard lesbian?

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    What I want to know is what's the difference between a raving/raging lesbian and a standard lesbian?
    LOL ooooops

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    So, I’m learning to lead, or as they continually annoyingly say at my local class I’m learning to be a man. .....snip
    I've got to say that when I dance as the lead I do tend to describe it as dancing as a man and when I used to see women in the line looking confused I would say don't worry I'm a man.

    Don't be put off with their stupid attitude it's great fun to dance as the lead sometimes and has made me a lot more tolerant of male dancers.

    I also like to dance as a lead with men dancing as a follower - now that's a challenge.

    As for being a lesbian, what has people's sexuality got to do with whether you lead or follow. Does that mean that lesbians can only lead and gay men should therefore be followers makes me really

  7. #7
    Registered User Trousers's Avatar
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Personally DT I think you'll make a good man!

    You have more balls than a lot on the scene.

    Don't let it get you down - I'm 46 and at work I still get treated like I'm the office junior - Sonny, Young man etc
    People have fixed ways of thinking about some things

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxine View Post
    Does that mean that lesbians can only lead and gay men should therefore be followers makes me really
    Presumably gay men are only expected to follow if they have a bandanna hanging out of their right pocket?

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    You can practice you leading skills on moi at SP.

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Same here, only rule is if you put your hand back on the top (in the follow position) then I get to steal the lead back for 30 seconds. Its the game I play with the wife when she leads, keeps her on her toes.

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry View Post
    You can practice you leading skills on moi at SP.
    Thanks Gerry. Unfortunately I'm not going to SP.

  12. #12
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    Stuff....
    To me this seems like an excellent way to quickly identify the idiots in the room which you're better off avoiding anyway. To quote our esteemed leader, what a bunch of bigots!!!

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    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Trouble View Post
    I’ve gotta say, the amount of resistance I’ve received from the teachers and some of the men has been bordering on unacceptable.
    I've gotta say, you're learning in the wrong dance form. And possibly in the wrong venue.

    I spent 2 hours on Sunday being a follow, and regularly teach and learn role-reverse, in Tango; no-one bats an eye. I and they are there to learn, not to make dumbass comments about sexuality.

    That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.

  14. #14
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    it appears you go to the neanderthal knuckle dragging class, where is this so i dont go there ?

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.
    You must try it
    its very relaxing not having to navigate

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    You must try it
    its very relaxing not having to navigate
    Mr Bailey is definately NOT a follower.

    if you danced with him as a follower, you would know what i mean !

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by philsmove View Post
    You must try it
    its very relaxing not having to navigate
    I have tried it.

    I enjoy leading more.

    I do what I enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trouble View Post
    Mr Bailey is definately NOT a follower.
    TJMOSTT

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    I've gotta say, you're learning in the wrong dance form. And possibly in the wrong venue.

    I spent 2 hours on Sunday being a follow, and regularly teach and learn role-reverse, in Tango; no-one bats an eye. I and they are there to learn, not to make dumbass comments about sexuality.

    That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.
    I agree with this. People are always learning the other role in tango. I think it's very good for your dancing.

    However. I have no problem with teachers calling the leads men and followers ladies.

    I don't think people should have to change everything they do and say to accomodate the minority.

    One of my tango teachers calls all the leads 'lads', even though he'll ask you to demonstrate the move on him and then turn you round and show you how your doing it wrong.

    And also my female ballroom teacher; when teaching as a man always used to say 'and guy's (referring to herself) this is our bit'.

    Apart from that good luck.

  19. #19
    Formerly known as DavidJames David Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    Quote Originally Posted by David Bailey View Post
    That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.
    Ironically, I did this on Saturday.

    But that was in Birmingham so doesn't count.

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    Re: Stop calling me a man!

    I remember how horrid it was with some follows in the line up looking at you as if to say are you a lesbian i dont want to hold your hand! And men asking why are you here in the line up - "ladies" should queue up over there!
    I stuck with it and found some venues better than other - so please stick with it and dont give in to the miserable gits - you've paid your money so you can lead or follow

    Good luck and look forward to a dance soon

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