Stop calling me a man!

[Double Trouble]

So, I’m learning to lead, or as they continually annoyingly say at my local class I’m learning to be a man.

I’ve gotta say, the amount of resistance I’ve received from the teachers and some of the men has been bordering on unacceptable. Funnily enough, the women I’m dancing with seem perfectly fine with it and some have said I’m the best man in the room. (I think that’s supposed to be a compliment).

To name a few, these are some of the comments I’ve received from teachers and men.

Week 1

Male demonstrator “Why are you learning to be a man?”
Me “Because I’m bored of following and wanted to learn something new…by the way, I’m not learning to be a man, I’m learning to lead”
Male demonstrator “Of course you do realise that all the women in the room think you’re a raving lesbian”
Me “Have any of the women actually said that?”
Male demonstrator “No, I just know that’s what they will be thinking”

Week 2

Female Demonstrator “You’re on the wrong side”
Me “No I’m learning to lead”
Female demonstrator “Why do you want to be a man? If you lead they’ll be men over and they’ll get all confused”
Followed by unnecessary tutting and huffing as she has to move ONE man round.

Week 3

Men over again so I’m sitting down waiting for the rotation to take my turn as a lead. A man comes over and offers me his hand, thinking I’m a follower waiting for a leader.

Me “It’s men over, not women, I’m leading”
Man “Well get up then and then you won’t have to be a man, you can be a woman”
Me “No thanks, I’m learning to lead, you’ll have to join me in the queue”
Man looks at me with disgust “Oh suit your bloody self then” and sods off to the bar outraged that for the first time in years there are men over and refuses to join in.


Even the organiser is looking at me with suspicion. Gav thinks the organiser suspects I’m using his classes to learn to lead so I can be a dance teacher elsewhere. I’m not, but even if I was, what difference does it make?

I don’t want to give up learning to lead. I’m really enjoying it, but I’m starting to get the hump with the ignorant comments. Hopefully they’ll stop when they realise I’m not giving up trying.

[daveb9000]

It seems to depend on the venue. My wife frequently leads in the Beginners' class (and occasionally Intermediate), as do a number of other women, and it seems to be fairly common in Edinburgh (maybe due to the lack of men). However, when we attended a Ceroc class in London while on holiday, and another in Manchester, it seemed alien to them for a woman to be leading and many of them seemed quite uncomfortable with it. As a side point, we also sometimes see men leading men during free style and no one seems to have a problem with it. I certainly don't make any assumptions over sexual orientation based on it.

[Trouble]

ahh, i think im going to have to come home with you Tuesday nites and go dancing. Sounds like fun. If i go with you, lead as well, can you imagine the gossip.. ooh we got two raging lesbians at our club. LOL.

What a crock. Silly old rude bastards.

[Double Trouble]

raving lesbian

raging lesbians

What I want to know is what's the difference between a raving/raging lesbian and a standard lesbian?

[Trouble]

What I want to know is what's the difference between a raving/raging lesbian and a standard lesbian?

LOL ooooops

[Gerry]

You can practice you leading skills on moi at SP.

[rtwwpad]

Same here, only rule is if you put your hand back on the top (in the follow position) then I get to steal the lead back for 30 seconds. Its the game I play with the wife when she leads, keeps her on her toes.

[Double Trouble]

You can practice you leading skills on moi at SP.

Thanks Gerry. Unfortunately I'm not going to SP.

[Maxine]

So, I’m learning to lead, or as they continually annoyingly say at my local class I’m learning to be a man. .....snip

I've got to say that when I dance as the lead I do tend to describe it as dancing as a man and when I used to see women in the line looking confused I would say don't worry I'm a man.

Don't be put off with their stupid attitude it's great fun to dance as the lead sometimes and has made me a lot more tolerant of male dancers.

I also like to dance as a lead with men dancing as a follower - now that's a challenge.

As for being a lesbian, what has people's sexuality got to do with whether you lead or follow. Does that mean that lesbians can only lead and gay men should therefore be followers makes me really

[Trousers]

Personally DT I think you'll make a good man!

You have more balls than a lot on the scene.

Don't let it get you down - I'm 46 and at work I still get treated like I'm the office junior - Sonny, Young man etc
People have fixed ways of thinking about some things

[Amir]

Stuff....

To me this seems like an excellent way to quickly identify the idiots in the room which you're better off avoiding anyway. To quote our esteemed leader, what a bunch of bigots!!!

[jiveclone]

Does that mean that lesbians can only lead and gay men should therefore be followers makes me really

Presumably gay men are only expected to follow if they have a bandanna hanging out of their right pocket?

[David Bailey]

I’ve gotta say, the amount of resistance I’ve received from the teachers and some of the men has been bordering on unacceptable.

I've gotta say, you're learning in the wrong dance form. And possibly in the wrong venue.

I spent 2 hours on Sunday being a follow, and regularly teach and learn role-reverse, in Tango; no-one bats an eye. I and they are there to learn, not to make dumbass comments about sexuality.

That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.

[Dreadful Scathe]

it appears you go to the neanderthal knuckle dragging class, where is this so i dont go there ?

[Andy McGregor]

Even the organiser is looking at me with suspicion. Gav thinks the organiser suspects I’m using his classes to learn to lead so I can be a dance teacher elsewhere. I’m not, but even if I was, what difference does it make?

I don’t want to give up learning to lead. I’m really enjoying it, but I’m starting to get the hump with the ignorant comments. Hopefully they’ll stop when they realise I’m not giving up trying.

I actively encourage the women to learn to lead in the lessons, especially in the beginners. We've usually got two or three ladies leading in most of our beginners lessons. And I still say "guys on the same side as me". Saying leaders would mean I have to change all my scripts - as in "guys go through, girls go through". Not only would I have to remember to make the change, the extra syllable changes the cadence. I usually get around this by saying the ladies are welcome to be honourary guys.

Unfortunately I have learnt from experience that guys must not learn to follow in the lessons as it really does upset a high proportion of the guys.

One thing I would suggest is that you don't stand at the very front of any of the rows. It's confusing for the teacher as it's not immediately obvious that everyone is in the right place after "guys on the same side as me".

The hardest thing you will need to learn is to adjust your footwork. If you don't you will be on the right foot at the same time as your partner and this can lead to problems, especially in the closed hold. This doesn't happen with most guys who follow a lady lead as you're both on the wrong foot and it works like a couple dancing in a mirror.

[philsmove]

That said, I'd probably never dance as a follow in a milonga.

You must try it
its very relaxing not having to navigate

[Trouble]

You must try it
its very relaxing not having to navigate

Mr Bailey is definately NOT a follower.

if you danced with him as a follower, you would know what i mean !

[todd]

...but I’m starting to get the hump with the ignorant comments...

Put blunty - I wouldn't go to that venue. I hope you have an alternative option.

I tend to encourage everyone to swap around and play with reverse roles as it really helps develop a stronger level of consideration for each others role.

Like Any said - getting "guys" to be followers in an actual lesson is a no-no as too many other "guys" would be uncomfortable with this. But, choosing the moments carefully, it can be done.

And like rtwwpad said - learning each both roles can lead (no pun intended) to games of swapping and stealing the lead from each other during a dance - great fun!

We have ladies leading ladies, ladies leading men, men leading men... Oh, and, get this - men leading ladies..!!! And no body gets the hump over any of it. Not even when a man leads a lady..!!!

[Andy McGregor]

Oh, and, get this - men leading ladies..!!! And no body gets the hump over any of it. Not even when a man leads a lady..!!!

And I once saw a man who danced with his wife!

[todd]

And I once saw a man who danced with his wife!